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> Passing a coding challenge is easy Something must be wrong with me then because I've been programming for decades in multiple areas productively, but success

> Passing a coding challenge is easy Something must be wrong with me then because I've been programming for decades in multiple areas productively, but successfully completing three leetcode medium/hard within 45 minutes while also talking through my thought process is not something I'd call easy. > so don't focus on them at all I'd suggest most people aren't going to get past the first level if they follow this advice. As for the OP though, since they already passed coding challenges, the advice might be appropriate for them. I'm actually surprised that there was no offer on any of the interviews where "a bunch" of coding challenges were passed. > If you can ship code yourself, you're already mid or senior level at most companies. I'd go with this idea. Make it clear that you can ship. If you can complete coding challenges, then you should be able to make a small game. And a decent website. And a SaaS project. And so on. Get a portfolio going.

tonmoy 4y ago
If you know how to study and practice passing programming challenges are definitely significantly easier than programming for decades in multiple areas productively
yellow_lead 4y ago
I think three in 45 mins is a bit hyperbole. Interviewing at Google I got 45 mins for each. At Amazon I got an hour for each. (Both mediums)
- spacemadness 4y ago
  Yes, most places it’ll be one question with follow ons related to it if you do well.
- turdprincess 4y ago
  Reportedly Facebook asks two mediums in 45 minutes.
- tejohnso 4y ago
  Not hyperbole. Direct quote and confirmation from FAANG recruiter. Maybe even after confirmation they were misinformed. Or maybe that was the suggested practice goal rather than what would actually happen in the interview.
  - hnfong 4y ago
    Definitely hyperbole. I dabbled in competitive programming many years ago in high school. There's are only a handful of people I know that might be able to correctly complete 3 leetcode hard questions within one hour (they're the ones that end up in ICPC for example). There's no way the bar is actually that high, otherwise they wouldn't be able to recruit many thousands of people every year.
  - yellow_lead 4y ago
    That recruiter shouldn't have said that as its probably caused lots of people who aren't inadequate to feel like they are.
phphphphp 4y ago
Regarding coding challenges, I meant to say that they're just as easy to pass as they are to fail, meaning you can fail one test and pass another and it mean nothing about your ability or value as a software engineer. I've failed some embarrassingly easy coding challenges and completed others in the best manner the hirer has ever seen. They're meaningless. You should not consider them as a reflection on your value or prospects. If you're consistently failing coding challenges, you have a couple of options. 1. Find companies that don't use them. 2. Push back against any coding challenges and instead offer to complete a small project for them that you believe will represent the way you work in totality -- advocate for the pointlessness of coding challenges and encourage the company to change their practices. 3. Cheat (and in the unlikely situation in which you're caught, just say "I solve problems by googling, like any good software engineer") 4. The worst option is to waste your time grinding through leetcode etc. and become good at passing these dumb coding challenges. I can see why that option appeals to us (it feels like a video game, like we just need to practice more to level up) but it has nothing to do with software engineering. The fact that no offers were received by the OP after passing coding challenges should show how little they're thought of by hirers: they're a lazy half-baked way to exclude a bunch of applicants and feel like it was helpful / fair / meritocratic. A company using coding challenges may as well just randomly select 20% of applicants to go through to interview. Imagine you work at a company that uses coding challenges as part of their interview screen. Imagine they need to hire someone for your team. Imagine you worked with someone in a previous job who is an amazing software engineer and you know they would provide incredible value to your team. Imagine that person fails the coding challenge. Would that person get the job or not? In any rational company, you would just discard the coding challenge result, because you have a much stronger signal: one of your team is vouching for them. Any company willing to disregard a candidate because they failed a coding challenge is a company that is falling far short in their ability to hire the best people. For some companies, they don't care about hiring the best, they just need a bunch of people who can meet the bare minimum coding challenge requirement, but that's not a company worth working at.
- josephg 4y ago
  > Regarding coding challenges, I meant to say that … They're meaningless. They’re not meaningless. I worked as a technical screener for a recruiting company a few years ago. We interviewed thousands of people and had good data on this stuff. Programming challenges had high signal - doing well at ours was positively correlated with all the other parts of our quantitative assessment (knowledge, software anrchitecture, etc) and ultimately with getting hired. There’s a reason they’re popular. It’s not all cargo culting.
mattwilsonn888 4y ago
Might it be fair to say that Leetcode as a proxy for much real world programming is like using heavy duty mental arithmetic to judge one's quality as a research mathematician? I think doing some Leetcode type challenges are important at some point - they open a door in your brain around problem solving, but that door tends to stay open thus grinding those challenges to me offers diminishing returns - if people get more out of them and enjoy them that is great, but I think anyone who has had the thrill of solving hard problems to contribute to a high quality project with real application has a unenthusiastic feeling towards Leetcode type challenges and the hollow achievement from finishing them relative to real work.
- andrew_ 4y ago
  leetcode is a horrible proxy for evaluating critical thinking ability - it's simply performative measure of "preparation" and the ability to regurgitate on-demand. at least that's my take after a few decades in the game.
deleted 4y ago
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jokethrowaway 4y ago
There is a difference between leetcode in fang and normal code challenges in normal companies Leetcode has zero correlation to your practical working life, code challenges are what you would do in a normal day at work. I never prepared for code challenges; if I had to prepare for leetcode I'd need a few months to have any hope.

tonmoy 4y ago

If you know how to study and practice passing programming challenges are definitely significantly easier than programming for decades in multiple areas productively

yellow_lead 4y ago

I think three in 45 mins is a bit hyperbole. Interviewing at Google I got 45 mins for each. At Amazon I got an hour for each. (Both mediums)

spacemadness 4y ago
Yes, most places it’ll be one question with follow ons related to it if you do well.
turdprincess 4y ago
Reportedly Facebook asks two mediums in 45 minutes.
tejohnso 4y ago
Not hyperbole. Direct quote and confirmation from FAANG recruiter. Maybe even after confirmation they were misinformed. Or maybe that was the suggested practice goal rather than what would actually happen in the interview.
- hnfong 4y ago
  Definitely hyperbole. I dabbled in competitive programming many years ago in high school. There's are only a handful of people I know that might be able to correctly complete 3 leetcode hard questions within one hour (they're the ones that end up in ICPC for example). There's no way the bar is actually that high, otherwise they wouldn't be able to recruit many thousands of people every year.
- yellow_lead 4y ago
  That recruiter shouldn't have said that as its probably caused lots of people who aren't inadequate to feel like they are.

phphphphp 4y ago

Regarding coding challenges, I meant to say that they're just as easy to pass as they are to fail, meaning you can fail one test and pass another and it mean nothing about your ability or value as a software engineer. I've failed some embarrassingly easy coding challenges and completed others in the best manner the hirer has ever seen. They're meaningless. You should not consider them as a reflection on your value or prospects. If you're consistently failing coding challenges, you have a couple of options. 1. Find companies that don't use them. 2. Push back against any coding challenges and instead offer to complete a small project for them that you believe will represent the way you work in totality -- advocate for the pointlessness of coding challenges and encourage the company to change their practices. 3. Cheat (and in the unlikely situation in which you're caught, just say "I solve problems by googling, like any good software engineer") 4. The worst option is to waste your time grinding through leetcode etc. and become good at passing these dumb coding challenges. I can see why that option appeals to us (it feels like a video game, like we just need to practice more to level up) but it has nothing to do with software engineering. The fact that no offers were received by the OP after passing coding challenges should show how little they're thought of by hirers: they're a lazy half-baked way to exclude a bunch of applicants and feel like it was helpful / fair / meritocratic. A company using coding challenges may as well just randomly select 20% of applicants to go through to interview. Imagine you work at a company that uses coding challenges as part of their interview screen. Imagine they need to hire someone for your team. Imagine you worked with someone in a previous job who is an amazing software engineer and you know they would provide incredible value to your team. Imagine that person fails the coding challenge. Would that person get the job or not? In any rational company, you would just discard the coding challenge result, because you have a much stronger signal: one of your team is vouching for them. Any company willing to disregard a candidate because they failed a coding challenge is a company that is falling far short in their ability to hire the best people. For some companies, they don't care about hiring the best, they just need a bunch of people who can meet the bare minimum coding challenge requirement, but that's not a company worth working at.

josephg 4y ago
> Regarding coding challenges, I meant to say that … They're meaningless. They’re not meaningless. I worked as a technical screener for a recruiting company a few years ago. We interviewed thousands of people and had good data on this stuff. Programming challenges had high signal - doing well at ours was positively correlated with all the other parts of our quantitative assessment (knowledge, software anrchitecture, etc) and ultimately with getting hired. There’s a reason they’re popular. It’s not all cargo culting.

mattwilsonn888 4y ago

Might it be fair to say that Leetcode as a proxy for much real world programming is like using heavy duty mental arithmetic to judge one's quality as a research mathematician? I think doing some Leetcode type challenges are important at some point - they open a door in your brain around problem solving, but that door tends to stay open thus grinding those challenges to me offers diminishing returns - if people get more out of them and enjoy them that is great, but I think anyone who has had the thrill of solving hard problems to contribute to a high quality project with real application has a unenthusiastic feeling towards Leetcode type challenges and the hollow achievement from finishing them relative to real work.

andrew_ 4y ago
leetcode is a horrible proxy for evaluating critical thinking ability - it's simply performative measure of "preparation" and the ability to regurgitate on-demand. at least that's my take after a few decades in the game.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jokethrowaway 4y ago

There is a difference between leetcode in fang and normal code challenges in normal companies Leetcode has zero correlation to your practical working life, code challenges are what you would do in a normal day at work. I never prepared for code challenges; if I had to prepare for leetcode I'd need a few months to have any hope.