5 ms·

How bad is it? Is it just the occasional peripheral that doesn't work? Or will systems fail to run entirely?

maccard 4y ago
"occasional peripheral" is usually WiFi, trackpad, Bluetooth or GPU. Bluetooth may be manageable from that list, but if one of those 4 doesn't work pretty much out of the box, it's a non starter for most people
- doix 4y ago
  In my very small sample size, those things "work" well enough. What doesn't work is sleep state and power management. Just my personal experience, but that's what I'm always fiddling with. My laptop still drains much faster in Linux with the lid shut and "sleeping" despite my fiddling. Hopefully this will be sorted in the next few years and the technology doesn't change again.
  - noirbot 4y ago
    Yea, power management is absolutely terrible. I've been messing with it for a year, but I can't really get my Linux laptop on any distro to have better than about 2 hours of battery life while running, and 5-6 while in "standby". That said, the wifi and mouse issues are often by far the worst. It's probably somehow related to the standby stuff, but sometimes I'll just log in and it'll decide my trackpad didn't reinitialize correctly, so rebooting is the only option to easily fix it. There's also a persistent issue with Gnome where the modal for asking for a password for a wifi connection just crashes consistently until you restart. It's happened to me on 4 different distros.
- forgotusername6 4y ago
  Install Linux. Find out that WiFi doesn't work. Manually transfer files to compile WiFi driver via usb. Compile WiFi driver. WiFi works. Boot a few weeks later. WiFi no longer works. Driver built without being signed. Kernel now requires signed drivers. Work out how to sign and trust driver. Boot a few weeks later, WiFi no longer works. Kernel has upgraded again. Signed driver not in the right place. Disable security on driver checking. Put laptop in draw forever. Even though I am capable of fixing all of these things I just don't have the energy. If I want Linux I'll just use WSL or a VM.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - haspok 4y ago
    The last I had this problem was in 2015, when Dell in their infinite wisdom (or because they got a deal) decided to ship _some_ of their XPS 13s with a "Killer" (?) wifi, which didn't have proper Linux drivers, it was too new. Actually, half of the hardware in that machine at that time was unsupported by Linux, I remember I had to wait for about 6 months to get audio working properly. Oh, and I bought an Intel card which solved all wifi issues immediately... I haven't had that problem since, in fact, I find that Linux runs more reliably on a typical laptop (OK, I'm a Thinkpad person, if that's "typical") than Windows (except bleeding edge hardware, I don't understand why Intel can't release their drivers for their next in line CPUs in time, but I'm sure they have their reasons...).
    - forgotusername6 4y ago
      My failed attempt was on an HP stream. It was the cheapest laptop in the store and was woefully underpowered for running windows that it came installed with. I thought maybe I could use it as a lightweight, cheap little Linux notebook to do some hobby projects away from the desk. It wasn't to be.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - itsoktocry 4y ago
      This is my experience. I've been using Ubuntu exclusively since 2015, having installed it on a variety of my own laptops and desktops, as well as a few systems of friends and relatives. Sure, on occasion something breaks, but I've not encountered any major compatibility issues or installation blockers.
  - CameronNemo 4y ago
    Most WiFi drivers don't require a module. Recent Qualcomm, Intel, and MediaTek chipsets are supported OOTB. If you need an out of tree module to get your WiFi to work, it might be worth it to get a new WiFi card and get rid of the FakeTek chip your laptop came with.
- yencabulator 4y ago
  I've yet to see a laptop trackpad not work in Linux. I've run Linux on many, many, laptops, including Apple's PowerPC iBooks.
zwaps 4y ago
Power management and sleep (like, closing the lid of the laptop and it waking up correctly every time) has basically never worked for me on Linux machines - of which I had several.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  Very interesting, when was this? That, and "audio doesn't work", are one of the few Linux issues I hear people about that I've never had to deal with myself.
- javajosh 4y ago
  Same. Currently my Framework drains battery far too quickly when suspended. Also the fingerprint reader doesn't work, which I don't care about. It turns out for my typical patterns the battery thing is only a nuisance. I assume this experience was at the top of heap, since Framework actively courts Linux installations (I believe they sell Linux preinstalled?). It's also a bit strange, if predictable, that so many HN commenters seem genuinely surprised that Linux doesn't cleanly find and install every device driver on every mainstream laptop. Given the insider nature of many people here, I wonder if this implies that distro maintainers aren't getting enough first installation feedback. Unironically I suggest starting a TikTok (or something) campaign that encourages people to post short videos of Linux laptop installation going off the rails and wanting to throw the machine against the wall. A bug report, but with more passion.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
blairfrandeen 4y ago
I installed Ubuntu on a Dell laptop recently that wasn't on the approved list. It required a few tries, and running some scary commands in my BIOS to change the filesystem parameters. It works fine, and I can still dual boot to my old windows partition. The issues, funnily enough, happen when I go back to windows: the clock has been set back to UTC time, and the Bluetooth has forgotten my mouse. And now I switch back to Windows so rarely that it doesn't matter.
jeroenhd 4y ago
In my experience: hardware out for fewer than six months will have issues, especially on outdated LTS systems like Ubuntu. For example, my laptop (which I bought before it was even on the Lenovo website) had issues with Intel's audio driver that they forgot/didn't bother to submit firmware for to maintainers, though there was an easy workaround. In my experience, Linux will usually just work if you don't have any hardware from crappy vendors. Nvidia is one of the most important vendors that refuse to work normally, but many "gaming" vendors also haven't done any work to support Linux. Elgato and friends have hardware that's useless without software support and for that you need Windows or some weird project from Github. Unlike ten years ago, bluetooth, WiFi, ethernet, sound, video acceleration, suspend/sleep, and all the usual suspects just work if you give the kernel people time to merge the drivers (Windows drivers are ready before release, while Linux often gets them later) and if you pick a recent enough Linux distro. I think most people can grab a copy of the latest version of Linux Mint and just get started. Maybe Pop_OS! if you want a more Ubuntu feel without the Ubuntu hassle.

"occasional peripheral" is usually WiFi, trackpad, Bluetooth or GPU. Bluetooth may be manageable from that list, but if one of those 4 doesn't work pretty much out of the box, it's a non starter for most people

doix 4y ago
In my very small sample size, those things "work" well enough. What doesn't work is sleep state and power management. Just my personal experience, but that's what I'm always fiddling with. My laptop still drains much faster in Linux with the lid shut and "sleeping" despite my fiddling. Hopefully this will be sorted in the next few years and the technology doesn't change again.
- noirbot 4y ago
  Yea, power management is absolutely terrible. I've been messing with it for a year, but I can't really get my Linux laptop on any distro to have better than about 2 hours of battery life while running, and 5-6 while in "standby". That said, the wifi and mouse issues are often by far the worst. It's probably somehow related to the standby stuff, but sometimes I'll just log in and it'll decide my trackpad didn't reinitialize correctly, so rebooting is the only option to easily fix it. There's also a persistent issue with Gnome where the modal for asking for a password for a wifi connection just crashes consistently until you restart. It's happened to me on 4 different distros.
forgotusername6 4y ago
Install Linux. Find out that WiFi doesn't work. Manually transfer files to compile WiFi driver via usb. Compile WiFi driver. WiFi works. Boot a few weeks later. WiFi no longer works. Driver built without being signed. Kernel now requires signed drivers. Work out how to sign and trust driver. Boot a few weeks later, WiFi no longer works. Kernel has upgraded again. Signed driver not in the right place. Disable security on driver checking. Put laptop in draw forever. Even though I am capable of fixing all of these things I just don't have the energy. If I want Linux I'll just use WSL or a VM.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- haspok 4y ago
  The last I had this problem was in 2015, when Dell in their infinite wisdom (or because they got a deal) decided to ship _some_ of their XPS 13s with a "Killer" (?) wifi, which didn't have proper Linux drivers, it was too new. Actually, half of the hardware in that machine at that time was unsupported by Linux, I remember I had to wait for about 6 months to get audio working properly. Oh, and I bought an Intel card which solved all wifi issues immediately... I haven't had that problem since, in fact, I find that Linux runs more reliably on a typical laptop (OK, I'm a Thinkpad person, if that's "typical") than Windows (except bleeding edge hardware, I don't understand why Intel can't release their drivers for their next in line CPUs in time, but I'm sure they have their reasons...).
  - forgotusername6 4y ago
    My failed attempt was on an HP stream. It was the cheapest laptop in the store and was woefully underpowered for running windows that it came installed with. I thought maybe I could use it as a lightweight, cheap little Linux notebook to do some hobby projects away from the desk. It wasn't to be.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - itsoktocry 4y ago
    This is my experience. I've been using Ubuntu exclusively since 2015, having installed it on a variety of my own laptops and desktops, as well as a few systems of friends and relatives. Sure, on occasion something breaks, but I've not encountered any major compatibility issues or installation blockers.
- CameronNemo 4y ago
  Most WiFi drivers don't require a module. Recent Qualcomm, Intel, and MediaTek chipsets are supported OOTB. If you need an out of tree module to get your WiFi to work, it might be worth it to get a new WiFi card and get rid of the FakeTek chip your laptop came with.
yencabulator 4y ago
I've yet to see a laptop trackpad not work in Linux. I've run Linux on many, many, laptops, including Apple's PowerPC iBooks.

zwaps 4y ago

Power management and sleep (like, closing the lid of the laptop and it waking up correctly every time) has basically never worked for me on Linux machines - of which I had several.

jeroenhd 4y ago
Very interesting, when was this? That, and "audio doesn't work", are one of the few Linux issues I hear people about that I've never had to deal with myself.
javajosh 4y ago
Same. Currently my Framework drains battery far too quickly when suspended. Also the fingerprint reader doesn't work, which I don't care about. It turns out for my typical patterns the battery thing is only a nuisance. I assume this experience was at the top of heap, since Framework actively courts Linux installations (I believe they sell Linux preinstalled?). It's also a bit strange, if predictable, that so many HN commenters seem genuinely surprised that Linux doesn't cleanly find and install every device driver on every mainstream laptop. Given the insider nature of many people here, I wonder if this implies that distro maintainers aren't getting enough first installation feedback. Unironically I suggest starting a TikTok (or something) campaign that encourages people to post short videos of Linux laptop installation going off the rails and wanting to throw the machine against the wall. A bug report, but with more passion.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

blairfrandeen 4y ago

I installed Ubuntu on a Dell laptop recently that wasn't on the approved list. It required a few tries, and running some scary commands in my BIOS to change the filesystem parameters. It works fine, and I can still dual boot to my old windows partition. The issues, funnily enough, happen when I go back to windows: the clock has been set back to UTC time, and the Bluetooth has forgotten my mouse. And now I switch back to Windows so rarely that it doesn't matter.

jeroenhd 4y ago

In my experience: hardware out for fewer than six months will have issues, especially on outdated LTS systems like Ubuntu. For example, my laptop (which I bought before it was even on the Lenovo website) had issues with Intel's audio driver that they forgot/didn't bother to submit firmware for to maintainers, though there was an easy workaround. In my experience, Linux will usually just work if you don't have any hardware from crappy vendors. Nvidia is one of the most important vendors that refuse to work normally, but many "gaming" vendors also haven't done any work to support Linux. Elgato and friends have hardware that's useless without software support and for that you need Windows or some weird project from Github. Unlike ten years ago, bluetooth, WiFi, ethernet, sound, video acceleration, suspend/sleep, and all the usual suspects just work if you give the kernel people time to merge the drivers (Windows drivers are ready before release, while Linux often gets them later) and if you pick a recent enough Linux distro. I think most people can grab a copy of the latest version of Linux Mint and just get started. Maybe Pop_OS! if you want a more Ubuntu feel without the Ubuntu hassle.