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And with Proton and the Steam Deck, Valve is also removing the argument that you can't game on Linux. For those who don't know, it's basically a PC in the form

by lawn 4y ago

And with Proton and the Steam Deck, Valve is also removing the argument that you can't game on Linux. For those who don't know, it's basically a PC in the form of a Switch, with access to a large part of the Steam library (even a lot of unsupported games play well if you're willing to tweak things). It has very good specs for a handheld, and you can emulate most games up to the Switch, and some Switch games run even better on the deck than on the Switch. As it's open, you can even install Windows or replace parts if you want. It has surpassed all my expectations and it feels like the deck together with Proton is solving the last big obstacle with Linux on desktop.

Zhyl 4y ago
I still see people arguing against it in very much the same manner as the article outlines. "Linux won't be viable for gaming until it has Anti-cheat" EAC and Battleye announce Proton support "Linux won't be viable for gaming until there are AAA titles working" Apex Legends, Fall guys and a bunch of other titles get support "Linux won't be viable for gaming until the Steam Deck can meet demand" Valve increase production "Linux won't be viable for gaming until I can run Fortnite, Destiny 2 and Xbox Game pass" Well you have me there..
- posix86 4y ago
  You're putting up a scarecrow... you're saying people said that linux was perfect for gaming, except for the fact that it doesn't have anti cheat? No way. If anything, people said: If Linux wants to take off, it needs to have anticheat, but a whole lot more too.
  - Zhyl 4y ago
    Friend, I've had each of the arguments stated above as absolute statements. The format of the arguments aren't coherent or well thought through. It uses the quoted argument as a jumping off point before going into an anti-Linux rant, often citing the perception that the year of the Linux desktop has been "coming for 20 years" (or pick whatever number you want) or that the Linux community are toxic (which is ironic since most of the attacks are incredibly toxic). I think it's laudable that you're giving these people the benefit of the doubt, but they absolutely do exist and their positions are always thin or in bad faith.
  - beebeepka 4y ago
    Heh. Except the anticheat solutions that don't work are basically rootkits.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  I've had about 2 decades of experience hearing that gaming on Linux is here and being disappointed. I started hearing about Proton and how it was really doing it this time and I was skeptical as always, but I figured it was worth a shot based on who I was hearing it from. And I'll say that for me, Proton is it. Not only does it provide awesome compatibility, it's basically just a checkbox in Steam to enable. I'm sure you can still find issues; even Windows can't provide 100% compatibility with decades of games, but for me, it's arrived.
  - evo_9 4y ago
    Agree, and I’m wondering - as a Steam Deck owner - when / how I can setup my own Linux / proton gaming desktop?
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      That's an interesting path to using a Linux desktop, but it makes sense. I'm not sure if you're asking rhetorically, but I'd say that if you wanted a Linux gaming desktop, you'd just start with a normal gaming desktop (prebuilt or custom - you'll find endless guides on either). The thing about Linux/Open Source is that there are nearly endless distributions and politics around those, which is confusing, but I'm a fan of Pop!_OS for its simplicity - I suspect I could install it on my parents machines and they'd be OK, but it's also fine for my uses. The other option I'd consider is SteamOS so you could presumably just run the OS installed on the Deck on your dekstop for commonality, but I have zero experience with it as an OS, so it may be more complicated than that. I'm using Pop!_OS with an AMD CPU/GPU system that's pretty far from what I'd call stout, but I'm able to play games like "No Man's Sky" or "Crysis" just fine. I've probably tested around a dozen games personally going back as far as "Total Annihilation" from 1997(?) which ran without issue.
    - Zhyl 4y ago
      I mean you can do that now. * Install the OS of your choice. I would recommend Nobara for minimal tweaking for games. PopOS is another popular choice * Install steam and enable proton for all games in Settings * If you want Steam desktop UI, you can opt into the Steam Beta, set Steam to load on boot with launch option '-gamepadui' and voilà! You have yourself a Steam Deck gaming desktop!
- robbiet480 4y ago
  You can run a big chunk of Game Pass via xCloud https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/topic/xbox-cloud-gaming-in-microsoft-edge-with-steam-deck-43dd011b-0ce8-4810-8302-965be6d53296 https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/topic/xbox-cloud-gaming-...
  - BrickStoneWall 4y ago
    Isn't that cloud streaming?
    - robbiet480 4y ago
      Yes
- iuafhiuah 4y ago
  > "Linux won't be viable for gaming until I can run Fortnite, Destiny 2 and Xbox Game pass" > Well you have me there.. FYI MS Game Pass has worked on Linux for months now. Fortnite and Destiny 2 are two games where the developers have both, for whatever reason, specifically gone on record to say they will ban players that attempt to play their games on Linux.
  - sylens 4y ago
    For what its worth, the Destiny 2 developers did create a feedback thread a few months back on Reddit for the purposes of seeing the level of interest in them supporting Linux/Steam Deck
  - rbits 4y ago
    Game Pass works on Linux? I can't find anything about that, seems unlikely. Unless you're talking about Xbox Cloud Gaming, which is not a replacement for games running on your system, especially for people with bad internet connections.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  It isn't going to be something I choose to run until there's a VR system that works for it that doesn't feel like it is alpha quality. Even Valve's own Index only kinda-sorta works with half of the features.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  If Steam Deck was being sucessful by having game studios write Steam Deck games like they bother with Android, iOS, Switch and PlayStation, that would be inovative, emulating Windows and DirectX via a translation layer, not really,
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
capableweb 4y ago
> For those who don't know, it's basically a PC in the form of a Switch, with access to a large part of the Steam library (even a lot of unsupported games play well if you're willing to tweak things). Not just "basically a PC" but an actual PC running a modified version of Arch Linux (called SteamOS). One of the options in the menu is "Enter Desktop Mode" which does exactly what it says; drops you to a KDE desktop with all the bells and whistles of a normal Linux desktop. From there, you can use it as a normal PC if you want. Hook it up to a USB-C hub with HDMI and USB I/O, and you have a portable computer you can connect to displays with your keyboard and mouse. Flexible as hell, and it's also pretty nice as a gaming device.
MikusR 4y ago
Steam Deck is a single hardware configuration that is being supported by multibillion company.
- noirbot 4y ago
  Yes and no - the work that's gone into it, and into Proton in general has made game support on linux generally leap forward. I don't have a Steam Deck myself, but because it exists, things are getting patched in Proton often before games even come out, which is a far cry from where things used to be with Wine. Having a site like ProtonDB to be a single place to go look up any tweaks or config flags for Wine/Proton to get a game to work is invaluable, and it's now actually getting good traffic and data because of Steam Deck.
- infinityio 4y ago
  Valve's work on Proton has been repurposed for other hardware configurations with great success
- unclePerry 4y ago
  [dead]
- spopejoy 4y ago
  Presumably you mean that as a criticism but "being supported by a multibillion company" is normally a fantastic sign of success, and "a single hardware configuration" is an indicator of seriousness about guaranteeing a good UX. Look no further than power management/sleep/awake, which is flawless and snappy on steamdeck. That's more than you can say for 95% of "supported linux laptops".
nerdjon 4y ago
Sure proton is great and it does a good job on my steam deck. But to me the fact that the games are not natively supporting Linux and are instead needing a tool like Proton still means that Linux is not ideal for gaming. Just like Mac is not. It has nothing to do with the OS itself and everything to do with developer support. I love my steam deck but I also strongly believe that going with Linux was a short cited decision on Valves part to try to protect themselves from Microsoft. Many (most, all?) of us here are technical enough to understand at least on some level what proton does and what native actually is. But most users are not and that is where the problems come up. When a game pushes an update that breaks support on the steam deck most users will go to complain to the developers. But the developer was not involved in supporting Linux and rightly so they don't test every update on it. That is not the right path here. I strongly believe that to claim that an OS can be good for something it must be targeted by the developers of whatever that thing is and run natively (or at the very least if it is prepackaged with something like proton, it is still distributed by the developers for that OS) And yes I fully realize this is a chicken and the egg problem with linux and gaming.
- sylens 4y ago
  I do wonder if Valve has tried to discuss with Microsoft what it would like to see out of Windows in the future (potentially Windows 12) to make it a useful OS for a Steam Deck device. Some sort of advanced suspend/resume functionality similar to the Series X's Quick Resume would be a killer feature. And I'm sure Microsoft wouldn't mind having native Game Pass hooks into a device like that
  - nerdjon 4y ago
    There has been rumors about Game Pass discussions with Valve at one point but I have not seen anything about that recently. I feel like most likely not, that seems like something that would benefit Microsoft and not give any benefit to Valve. I know they have stated before some concern regarding the windows store or something. Game Pass is also the reason I installed Windows on my Steam Deck. Being able to sync game saves between my PC, Xbox, and Steam Deck is just way too powerful. And the obvious benefit of the games in game pass.

by lawn 4y ago

Zhyl 4y ago

I still see people arguing against it in very much the same manner as the article outlines. "Linux won't be viable for gaming until it has Anti-cheat" EAC and Battleye announce Proton support "Linux won't be viable for gaming until there are AAA titles working" Apex Legends, Fall guys and a bunch of other titles get support "Linux won't be viable for gaming until the Steam Deck can meet demand" Valve increase production "Linux won't be viable for gaming until I can run Fortnite, Destiny 2 and Xbox Game pass" Well you have me there..

posix86 4y ago
You're putting up a scarecrow... you're saying people said that linux was perfect for gaming, except for the fact that it doesn't have anti cheat? No way. If anything, people said: If Linux wants to take off, it needs to have anticheat, but a whole lot more too.
- Zhyl 4y ago
  Friend, I've had each of the arguments stated above as absolute statements. The format of the arguments aren't coherent or well thought through. It uses the quoted argument as a jumping off point before going into an anti-Linux rant, often citing the perception that the year of the Linux desktop has been "coming for 20 years" (or pick whatever number you want) or that the Linux community are toxic (which is ironic since most of the attacks are incredibly toxic). I think it's laudable that you're giving these people the benefit of the doubt, but they absolutely do exist and their positions are always thin or in bad faith.
- beebeepka 4y ago
  Heh. Except the anticheat solutions that don't work are basically rootkits.
hotpotamus 4y ago
I've had about 2 decades of experience hearing that gaming on Linux is here and being disappointed. I started hearing about Proton and how it was really doing it this time and I was skeptical as always, but I figured it was worth a shot based on who I was hearing it from. And I'll say that for me, Proton is it. Not only does it provide awesome compatibility, it's basically just a checkbox in Steam to enable. I'm sure you can still find issues; even Windows can't provide 100% compatibility with decades of games, but for me, it's arrived.
- evo_9 4y ago
  Agree, and I’m wondering - as a Steam Deck owner - when / how I can setup my own Linux / proton gaming desktop?
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    That's an interesting path to using a Linux desktop, but it makes sense. I'm not sure if you're asking rhetorically, but I'd say that if you wanted a Linux gaming desktop, you'd just start with a normal gaming desktop (prebuilt or custom - you'll find endless guides on either). The thing about Linux/Open Source is that there are nearly endless distributions and politics around those, which is confusing, but I'm a fan of Pop!_OS for its simplicity - I suspect I could install it on my parents machines and they'd be OK, but it's also fine for my uses. The other option I'd consider is SteamOS so you could presumably just run the OS installed on the Deck on your dekstop for commonality, but I have zero experience with it as an OS, so it may be more complicated than that. I'm using Pop!_OS with an AMD CPU/GPU system that's pretty far from what I'd call stout, but I'm able to play games like "No Man's Sky" or "Crysis" just fine. I've probably tested around a dozen games personally going back as far as "Total Annihilation" from 1997(?) which ran without issue.
  - Zhyl 4y ago
    I mean you can do that now. * Install the OS of your choice. I would recommend Nobara for minimal tweaking for games. PopOS is another popular choice * Install steam and enable proton for all games in Settings * If you want Steam desktop UI, you can opt into the Steam Beta, set Steam to load on boot with launch option '-gamepadui' and voilà! You have yourself a Steam Deck gaming desktop!
robbiet480 4y ago
You can run a big chunk of Game Pass via xCloud https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/topic/xbox-cloud-gaming-in-microsoft-edge-with-steam-deck-43dd011b-0ce8-4810-8302-965be6d53296 https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/topic/xbox-cloud-gaming-...
- BrickStoneWall 4y ago
  Isn't that cloud streaming?
  - robbiet480 4y ago
    Yes
iuafhiuah 4y ago
> "Linux won't be viable for gaming until I can run Fortnite, Destiny 2 and Xbox Game pass" > Well you have me there.. FYI MS Game Pass has worked on Linux for months now. Fortnite and Destiny 2 are two games where the developers have both, for whatever reason, specifically gone on record to say they will ban players that attempt to play their games on Linux.
- sylens 4y ago
  For what its worth, the Destiny 2 developers did create a feedback thread a few months back on Reddit for the purposes of seeing the level of interest in them supporting Linux/Steam Deck
- rbits 4y ago
  Game Pass works on Linux? I can't find anything about that, seems unlikely. Unless you're talking about Xbox Cloud Gaming, which is not a replacement for games running on your system, especially for people with bad internet connections.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
It isn't going to be something I choose to run until there's a VR system that works for it that doesn't feel like it is alpha quality. Even Valve's own Index only kinda-sorta works with half of the features.
pjmlp 4y ago
If Steam Deck was being sucessful by having game studios write Steam Deck games like they bother with Android, iOS, Switch and PlayStation, that would be inovative, emulating Windows and DirectX via a translation layer, not really,

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

capableweb 4y ago

> For those who don't know, it's basically a PC in the form of a Switch, with access to a large part of the Steam library (even a lot of unsupported games play well if you're willing to tweak things). Not just "basically a PC" but an actual PC running a modified version of Arch Linux (called SteamOS). One of the options in the menu is "Enter Desktop Mode" which does exactly what it says; drops you to a KDE desktop with all the bells and whistles of a normal Linux desktop. From there, you can use it as a normal PC if you want. Hook it up to a USB-C hub with HDMI and USB I/O, and you have a portable computer you can connect to displays with your keyboard and mouse. Flexible as hell, and it's also pretty nice as a gaming device.

MikusR 4y ago

Steam Deck is a single hardware configuration that is being supported by multibillion company.

noirbot 4y ago
Yes and no - the work that's gone into it, and into Proton in general has made game support on linux generally leap forward. I don't have a Steam Deck myself, but because it exists, things are getting patched in Proton often before games even come out, which is a far cry from where things used to be with Wine. Having a site like ProtonDB to be a single place to go look up any tweaks or config flags for Wine/Proton to get a game to work is invaluable, and it's now actually getting good traffic and data because of Steam Deck.
infinityio 4y ago
Valve's work on Proton has been repurposed for other hardware configurations with great success
unclePerry 4y ago
[dead]
spopejoy 4y ago
Presumably you mean that as a criticism but "being supported by a multibillion company" is normally a fantastic sign of success, and "a single hardware configuration" is an indicator of seriousness about guaranteeing a good UX. Look no further than power management/sleep/awake, which is flawless and snappy on steamdeck. That's more than you can say for 95% of "supported linux laptops".

nerdjon 4y ago

Sure proton is great and it does a good job on my steam deck. But to me the fact that the games are not natively supporting Linux and are instead needing a tool like Proton still means that Linux is not ideal for gaming. Just like Mac is not. It has nothing to do with the OS itself and everything to do with developer support. I love my steam deck but I also strongly believe that going with Linux was a short cited decision on Valves part to try to protect themselves from Microsoft. Many (most, all?) of us here are technical enough to understand at least on some level what proton does and what native actually is. But most users are not and that is where the problems come up. When a game pushes an update that breaks support on the steam deck most users will go to complain to the developers. But the developer was not involved in supporting Linux and rightly so they don't test every update on it. That is not the right path here. I strongly believe that to claim that an OS can be good for something it must be targeted by the developers of whatever that thing is and run natively (or at the very least if it is prepackaged with something like proton, it is still distributed by the developers for that OS) And yes I fully realize this is a chicken and the egg problem with linux and gaming.

sylens 4y ago
I do wonder if Valve has tried to discuss with Microsoft what it would like to see out of Windows in the future (potentially Windows 12) to make it a useful OS for a Steam Deck device. Some sort of advanced suspend/resume functionality similar to the Series X's Quick Resume would be a killer feature. And I'm sure Microsoft wouldn't mind having native Game Pass hooks into a device like that
- nerdjon 4y ago
  There has been rumors about Game Pass discussions with Valve at one point but I have not seen anything about that recently. I feel like most likely not, that seems like something that would benefit Microsoft and not give any benefit to Valve. I know they have stated before some concern regarding the windows store or something. Game Pass is also the reason I installed Windows on my Steam Deck. Being able to sync game saves between my PC, Xbox, and Steam Deck is just way too powerful. And the obvious benefit of the games in game pass.