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To me it never made sense, people point out issues that makes linux not suitable for desktop use by quoting how it should follow Windows or OSX approach... to m

To me it never made sense, people point out issues that makes linux not suitable for desktop use by quoting how it should follow Windows or OSX approach... to me someone wanted to use linux but without using linux, at that point why don't they use windows or OSX? I also use linux on the desktop and the way it behaves matches my thinking process, If I wanted it to be used as Windows or OSX I would be using Windows or OSX

Aaargh20318 4y ago
> at that point why don't they use windows or OSX? Because for a lot of people the point is to use a free (as in speech) OS. They are fine with how OSX or Windows works, and they want Linux to work the same. They simply want a good, user-friendly free desktop OS.
- lnxg33k1 4y ago
  That's a fair point, I don't have an answer for that case but fair
kitsunesoba 4y ago
> to me someone wanted to use linux but without using linux, at that point why don't they use windows or OSX? I also use linux on the desktop and the way it behaves matches my thinking process, If I wanted it to be used as Windows or OSX I would be using Windows or OSX People want Linux to act like other operating systems because: 1. They want an easy alternative that doesn’t require extensive relearning should their original OS of choice become unpalatable for some reason 2. Advocates of desktop Linux have endlessly sung praises about how customizable it is and how that flexibility is a core tenet, so why shouldn’t it be able to act identically to Windows or macOS, at least as far as UI goes? The first is particularly big, because remember that at this point a lot of people have decades of usage of Windows/macOS under their belt, and even if switching to Linux is a practical consideration for them, such users probably aren’t keen on tossing out all their little bits of power user knowledge and productivity boosting tricks and having to start out from almost scratch.
- EamonnMR 4y ago
  Part of this is about distro selection. I have a decade plus of windows9x, XP, and 7 experience, so I use Lubuntu which works pretty much exactly like they did, and is honestly less surprising/confusing than Windows 10 (I skipped 8.) My understanding is that there are also distros that closely match the mac experience. If you pick up a distro like mainline Ubuntu you might be confronted with potentially confusing new opinions about how desktops should work. I lucked out and tried it back in the Gnome 2 days when it felt like XP.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    There are distros/DEs that get within shooting distance of the Windows experience but don’t quite achieve it. The devil is in the details. There’s nothing that replicates macOS unfortunately. Many point to GNOME, but it’s much more like iPadOS than macOS, or to elementaryOS but it only shares some aesthetics with core features like the global menubar or super-based (as opposed to control-based) key shortcuts being entirely absent. For the latter there’s hacks like Kinto[0] but this is the sort of thing that really needs to be part of the DE. [0]: https://kinto.sh/ https://kinto.sh/
    - lnxg33k1 4y ago
      >>> There are distros/DEs that get within shooting distance of the Windows experience but don’t quite achieve it. The devil is in the details. Well, a while ago Ubuntu implemented amazon ads in the start menu
- MrPowerGamerBR 4y ago
  > Advocates of desktop Linux have endlessly sung praises about how customizable it is and how that flexibility is a core tenet, so why shouldn’t it be able to act identically to Windows or macOS, at least as far as UI goes? This is something that I always bothered me. I love using middle click to scroll (you middle click, then move your mouse up and down) in Windows, but there isn't any way to do this in Linux. You can enable it in Firefox for Linux but not on the entire OS, and trying to ask people about this just makes people reply with "why would you want to do this if the default is middle click to copy??". There are ways to sort of mimic this behavior, but none 100% matches how Windows work.
safety1st 4y ago
People who say linux should follow a Windows or OSX approach 1) don't use linux and 2) don't understand what makes a good product or brand. I don't really care how many people use Linux, it's been my daily driver for a decade and I don't need other people to use it - I just need them to use compatible file formats or sometimes the same web apps as me which is increasingly a solved problem, for people who really need Adobe CS or something they are not going to be using Linux this decade. Linux can enjoy great success if it finds a suitable OS market segment -- hello Steam deck and Steam OS? After a few tries Gabe may be on to something. If it happens it will have nothing to do with competing with Microsoft or Apple on their terms. In the meantime I don't really give a shit because it's great for me and I use it. I do think the GPL world in general is missing some kind of amazing positioning opportunity - don't know what exactly or how to fix it but basically most of Big Tech are not liked because they're abusers, and GPLed software is the antidote.
TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
Does Linux finally have something like a Device Manager on Windows? Because last time I tried, there is just no BFU suitable way to figure out what is status of this or that peripheral.

Aaargh20318 4y ago

> at that point why don't they use windows or OSX? Because for a lot of people the point is to use a free (as in speech) OS. They are fine with how OSX or Windows works, and they want Linux to work the same. They simply want a good, user-friendly free desktop OS.

lnxg33k1 4y ago
That's a fair point, I don't have an answer for that case but fair

kitsunesoba 4y ago

> to me someone wanted to use linux but without using linux, at that point why don't they use windows or OSX? I also use linux on the desktop and the way it behaves matches my thinking process, If I wanted it to be used as Windows or OSX I would be using Windows or OSX People want Linux to act like other operating systems because: 1. They want an easy alternative that doesn’t require extensive relearning should their original OS of choice become unpalatable for some reason 2. Advocates of desktop Linux have endlessly sung praises about how customizable it is and how that flexibility is a core tenet, so why shouldn’t it be able to act identically to Windows or macOS, at least as far as UI goes? The first is particularly big, because remember that at this point a lot of people have decades of usage of Windows/macOS under their belt, and even if switching to Linux is a practical consideration for them, such users probably aren’t keen on tossing out all their little bits of power user knowledge and productivity boosting tricks and having to start out from almost scratch.

EamonnMR 4y ago
Part of this is about distro selection. I have a decade plus of windows9x, XP, and 7 experience, so I use Lubuntu which works pretty much exactly like they did, and is honestly less surprising/confusing than Windows 10 (I skipped 8.) My understanding is that there are also distros that closely match the mac experience. If you pick up a distro like mainline Ubuntu you might be confronted with potentially confusing new opinions about how desktops should work. I lucked out and tried it back in the Gnome 2 days when it felt like XP.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  There are distros/DEs that get within shooting distance of the Windows experience but don’t quite achieve it. The devil is in the details. There’s nothing that replicates macOS unfortunately. Many point to GNOME, but it’s much more like iPadOS than macOS, or to elementaryOS but it only shares some aesthetics with core features like the global menubar or super-based (as opposed to control-based) key shortcuts being entirely absent. For the latter there’s hacks like Kinto[0] but this is the sort of thing that really needs to be part of the DE. [0]: https://kinto.sh/ https://kinto.sh/
  - lnxg33k1 4y ago
    >>> There are distros/DEs that get within shooting distance of the Windows experience but don’t quite achieve it. The devil is in the details. Well, a while ago Ubuntu implemented amazon ads in the start menu
MrPowerGamerBR 4y ago
> Advocates of desktop Linux have endlessly sung praises about how customizable it is and how that flexibility is a core tenet, so why shouldn’t it be able to act identically to Windows or macOS, at least as far as UI goes? This is something that I always bothered me. I love using middle click to scroll (you middle click, then move your mouse up and down) in Windows, but there isn't any way to do this in Linux. You can enable it in Firefox for Linux but not on the entire OS, and trying to ask people about this just makes people reply with "why would you want to do this if the default is middle click to copy??". There are ways to sort of mimic this behavior, but none 100% matches how Windows work.

safety1st 4y ago

People who say linux should follow a Windows or OSX approach 1) don't use linux and 2) don't understand what makes a good product or brand. I don't really care how many people use Linux, it's been my daily driver for a decade and I don't need other people to use it - I just need them to use compatible file formats or sometimes the same web apps as me which is increasingly a solved problem, for people who really need Adobe CS or something they are not going to be using Linux this decade. Linux can enjoy great success if it finds a suitable OS market segment -- hello Steam deck and Steam OS? After a few tries Gabe may be on to something. If it happens it will have nothing to do with competing with Microsoft or Apple on their terms. In the meantime I don't really give a shit because it's great for me and I use it. I do think the GPL world in general is missing some kind of amazing positioning opportunity - don't know what exactly or how to fix it but basically most of Big Tech are not liked because they're abusers, and GPLed software is the antidote.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago

Does Linux finally have something like a Device Manager on Windows? Because last time I tried, there is just no BFU suitable way to figure out what is status of this or that peripheral.