4 ms·

I mean most people will just tell you what you want to hear, but the reality it's usually about the following things: Pay - Almost always, wages don't keep u

I mean most people will just tell you what you want to hear, but the reality it's usually about the following things: Pay - Almost always, wages don't keep up with your progression, and never with the market. Progression - Not just promotions, but being given the interesting work to run with. Once someone sees you as junior, it's easier to go somewhere else to be treated with a bit more gravitas. Morale - Quite a lot of tech leadership is terrible. Various problems make people sad. Skill - They might actually be terrible / or skilled but terrible at actually finishing anything. It makes a lot of sense to hop about until you find a company that constantly rewards you, but the reality is they barely exist and even in the top companies there's hopping about for the same reasons. I'm in the UK and spent many years as a contractor. It was never a case of not caring, or not wanting a long term home, and since most of the work and platforms were similar org to org, not understanding longer term consequences of decisions doesn't entirly apply. Mostly, the negativity just writes off ambitious people. Though it might make sense given your org, like others, might just have the same reward problems.

throwaway9870 4y ago
> Mostly, the negativity just writes off ambitious people. Though it might make sense given your org, like others, might just have the same reward problems. Or the person has unreasonable expectations. On top of that, they are bad at selecting a job that will make them happy. In any case, I would not hire then either. Maybe if I just had some boring app that needed some maintenance I would hire them, but that is not what I do.
- ownagefool 4y ago
  Fair comment. It depends what you think of the market. I'm in the UK. My summary of the British market is most devs are earning $50,000 - $100,000, with a few tier 2 and even less tier 3 companies, that don't actually offer SV level RSUs. Basically there's not a lot of spots to "guess right". Historically there's a large contractor market that's way more lucrative net than anything excep tier 3, of which you can probably count on your fingers. Personally, I try to build better orgs to keep these folks happy, but each to their own. :)
- bigwavedave 4y ago
  > [snip] On top of that, they are bad at selecting a job that will make them happy. In any case, I would not hire then either. [snip] I'm not sure that's entirely fair to say. If a company makes a few bad hires, are they necessarily bad at selecting candidates that will make them happy? Or is it also that there are other factors, like lack of availability of first-choice candidates, possibly an inexperienced hiring manager, maybe pressure from C-suites to hire a friend of theirs regardless of qualifications, and perhaps the regrettable, but unavoidable, truth that a bad hire is more than likely going to misrepresent themselves and social engineer their way into an offer? Personally, I think it's a little unfair to make the assumption that someone who's switched around a handful of times and/or gives "morale" as a reason for leaving is bad at picking jobs that will make them happy, but I'm just some guy on the internet- I don't really know anything about anything.
PoignardAzur 4y ago
Wow. I feel incredibly targeted by that list.

throwaway9870 4y ago

> Mostly, the negativity just writes off ambitious people. Though it might make sense given your org, like others, might just have the same reward problems. Or the person has unreasonable expectations. On top of that, they are bad at selecting a job that will make them happy. In any case, I would not hire then either. Maybe if I just had some boring app that needed some maintenance I would hire them, but that is not what I do.

ownagefool 4y ago
Fair comment. It depends what you think of the market. I'm in the UK. My summary of the British market is most devs are earning $50,000 - $100,000, with a few tier 2 and even less tier 3 companies, that don't actually offer SV level RSUs. Basically there's not a lot of spots to "guess right". Historically there's a large contractor market that's way more lucrative net than anything excep tier 3, of which you can probably count on your fingers. Personally, I try to build better orgs to keep these folks happy, but each to their own. :)
bigwavedave 4y ago
> [snip] On top of that, they are bad at selecting a job that will make them happy. In any case, I would not hire then either. [snip] I'm not sure that's entirely fair to say. If a company makes a few bad hires, are they necessarily bad at selecting candidates that will make them happy? Or is it also that there are other factors, like lack of availability of first-choice candidates, possibly an inexperienced hiring manager, maybe pressure from C-suites to hire a friend of theirs regardless of qualifications, and perhaps the regrettable, but unavoidable, truth that a bad hire is more than likely going to misrepresent themselves and social engineer their way into an offer? Personally, I think it's a little unfair to make the assumption that someone who's switched around a handful of times and/or gives "morale" as a reason for leaving is bad at picking jobs that will make them happy, but I'm just some guy on the internet- I don't really know anything about anything.

PoignardAzur 4y ago

Wow. I feel incredibly targeted by that list.