5 ms·

Yes but ultimately they are answerable to an (often) diverse set of interests, which push them towards a maximum. State owned enterprises ala the USSR were answ

Yes but ultimately they are answerable to an (often) diverse set of interests, which push them towards a maximum. State owned enterprises ala the USSR were answerable to far fewer interested parties.

Clent 4y ago
What are these 'interested parties' because that sounds like another way to say 'shared holders' -- There is base assumption in such a claim that more is better and that our current system is more optimal than some other system you've heard about. A curious perspective; fear of options. Emotion over logic.
coliveira 4y ago
The market is not "free" as they pretend to be. The US market is essentially the investment market, a small club of extremely powerful WallStreet companies that dominates the investment landscape. In this sense, it is very centrally controlled, if not by the government, but instead by a close elite of capital managers. A free market would be something like a farmers market where producers sell directly to consumers. Instead, the US stock market is more like a cartel where there is a central group of intermediaries, which control money moves between producers (companies) and buyers (small/medium investors).
- WalterBright 4y ago
  > A free market would be something like a farmers market where producers sell directly to consumers. No, a free market is when people are free to make transactions with whoever they please. Big companies are just as free market as mom & pops.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    > No, a free market is when people are free to make transactions with whoever they please. Big companies are just as free market as mom & pops. Not really. A company that's big enough to be (even a regional) monopoly forces people to transact with them by virtue of being the only game in town. The question is whether this is a continuous gradient from "more free" to "less free" or more similar to a step function when a company reaches monopoly status.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      This is a big country and nobody has their feet nailed to the ground. Your local supermarket may be the only one in your village, but the next village is easily attainable. Something being more convenient doesn't make it a monopoly. I grew up in the Air Force. My mom would always shop at the base PX because it was cheaper, and sometimes it was a 30 minute drive away, passing store after store to get there. To make the drive worthwhile, she'd buy 2 weeks worth of groceries at a time.
      - coliveira 4y ago
        Reality in America has shown that the same supermarkets that exist in my town also dominate the next town. I don't know what alternate reality you're living on.
        WalterBright 4y ago
        I live in the US. Plenty of choice. Even driving 30 minutes like my mom did. I suppose if you live on the tundra in Alaska, it might be a bit farther, but you could always just shoot a bear and eat it. In Seattle, there are some neighborhoods without stores, but that is usually because the stores cannot handle the shoplifting anymore, and quit. It's still not far to another store outside those neighborhoods. You can even buy food from Amazon from your Lazy-Boy. Push a button, and food appears on your porch. If you have a really hard time finding food where you live, may I suggest: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qelMhlI6f_o https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qelMhlI6f_o
        jessaustin 4y ago
        If you're citing Amazon to prove that competition exists in any particular USA industry, you might want to take a short break to reevaluate your argument. Also, happy new year!
        WalterBright 4y ago
        Walmart also sells online. Happy new year to you! P.S. I buy some food items from Amazon that, including shipping, are cheaper than what the local grocery store prices them at. Isn't American competition great?
  - coliveira 4y ago
    Are you free to make transactions with whoever pleases you? Most certainly not, the stock market (for example) is heavily regulated and controlled top down by Wall Street companies. The same for every other major industry in the USA.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      > Are you free to make transactions with whoever pleases you? Aren't you? I find that businesses like my money. What stocks in the market are you prevented from buying?
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        Lots of people are excluded from buying equity in new businesses: https://www.sec.gov/education/capitalraising/building-blocks/accredited-investor https://www.sec.gov/education/capitalraising/building-blocks...
        WalterBright 4y ago
        That's because losers demanded that the government protect them from making bad decisions. Don't blame the free market.

Yes but ultimately they are answerable to an (often) diverse set of interests, which push them towards a maximum. State owned enterprises ala the USSR were answerable to far fewer interested parties.

Clent 4y ago

What are these 'interested parties' because that sounds like another way to say 'shared holders' -- There is base assumption in such a claim that more is better and that our current system is more optimal than some other system you've heard about. A curious perspective; fear of options. Emotion over logic.

coliveira 4y ago

The market is not "free" as they pretend to be. The US market is essentially the investment market, a small club of extremely powerful WallStreet companies that dominates the investment landscape. In this sense, it is very centrally controlled, if not by the government, but instead by a close elite of capital managers. A free market would be something like a farmers market where producers sell directly to consumers. Instead, the US stock market is more like a cartel where there is a central group of intermediaries, which control money moves between producers (companies) and buyers (small/medium investors).

WalterBright 4y ago
> A free market would be something like a farmers market where producers sell directly to consumers. No, a free market is when people are free to make transactions with whoever they please. Big companies are just as free market as mom & pops.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > No, a free market is when people are free to make transactions with whoever they please. Big companies are just as free market as mom & pops. Not really. A company that's big enough to be (even a regional) monopoly forces people to transact with them by virtue of being the only game in town. The question is whether this is a continuous gradient from "more free" to "less free" or more similar to a step function when a company reaches monopoly status.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    This is a big country and nobody has their feet nailed to the ground. Your local supermarket may be the only one in your village, but the next village is easily attainable. Something being more convenient doesn't make it a monopoly. I grew up in the Air Force. My mom would always shop at the base PX because it was cheaper, and sometimes it was a 30 minute drive away, passing store after store to get there. To make the drive worthwhile, she'd buy 2 weeks worth of groceries at a time.
    - coliveira 4y ago
      Reality in America has shown that the same supermarkets that exist in my town also dominate the next town. I don't know what alternate reality you're living on.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        I live in the US. Plenty of choice. Even driving 30 minutes like my mom did. I suppose if you live on the tundra in Alaska, it might be a bit farther, but you could always just shoot a bear and eat it. In Seattle, there are some neighborhoods without stores, but that is usually because the stores cannot handle the shoplifting anymore, and quit. It's still not far to another store outside those neighborhoods. You can even buy food from Amazon from your Lazy-Boy. Push a button, and food appears on your porch. If you have a really hard time finding food where you live, may I suggest: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qelMhlI6f_o https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qelMhlI6f_o
        jessaustin 4y ago
        If you're citing Amazon to prove that competition exists in any particular USA industry, you might want to take a short break to reevaluate your argument. Also, happy new year!
        WalterBright 4y ago
        Walmart also sells online. Happy new year to you! P.S. I buy some food items from Amazon that, including shipping, are cheaper than what the local grocery store prices them at. Isn't American competition great?
- coliveira 4y ago
  Are you free to make transactions with whoever pleases you? Most certainly not, the stock market (for example) is heavily regulated and controlled top down by Wall Street companies. The same for every other major industry in the USA.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    > Are you free to make transactions with whoever pleases you? Aren't you? I find that businesses like my money. What stocks in the market are you prevented from buying?
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Lots of people are excluded from buying equity in new businesses: https://www.sec.gov/education/capitalraising/building-blocks/accredited-investor https://www.sec.gov/education/capitalraising/building-blocks...
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        That's because losers demanded that the government protect them from making bad decisions. Don't blame the free market.