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> There is no magic barrier preventing goods moving across the border except that the customs department decides to interfere. Customs policies are based on in

by lispm 4y ago

> There is no magic barrier preventing goods moving across the border except that the customs department decides to interfere. Customs policies are based on international trade agreements and local policies. The 'custom department' is just executing. > one of things that most bought people together celebrating the EU's contribution to the world seemed to be ... phone charger cables You made that up.

roenxi 4y ago
That suggests there is a problem with the local policies. I recall when the US had that baby formula crisis and people couldn't import the stuff because of local policies. Which is obviously stupid. There were starving babies. US babies aren't that different from EU, APAC, or South American babies. The crisis was a self inflicted wound. And by far most of the time, the idea that a good is OK in one country but unacceptable in another is silly. It is quite rare that a good that can be sold somewhere needs to be restricted somewhere else. It happens in rare cases, but far less than most policies would have us believe.
- lispm 4y ago
  > the idea that a good is OK in one country but unacceptable in another is silly. Goods are produced under very different standards, different subvention systems, different economic systems, different economic policies, ... For example in the EU the Chinese Covid vaccine(s) have no permissions. Likewise China does not allow European vaccines to be imported. Each country has their own reasons for that. It's not because the regulators are silly. It's because they have different standards and different interests. In large free trade zones and joint markets like the EU, there are common standards and a common court for disputes. The EU as a union, just like any country in the world, negotiates the trade agreements with other countries, ...
  - roenxi 4y ago
    That example does sound a bit silly. I took an American one. I'm not American. I'm fine. They're safe enough. The vaccine doesn't know it moved countries. Why shouldn't people in China be able to use European vaccines? Are their policies not evidence based? Are we going to call Chinese people unvaccinated en mass until they take European vaccines? If not, why can't Europeans use Chinese vaccines? > Goods are produced under very different standards, different subvention systems, different economic systems, different economic policies, ... That isn't an explanation or an argument, that is just a list of things which are true. I'm happy to read that list and then buy things that are different from what I'm used to. I'll buy stuff made by Communists, Capitalists, Muslims, fools, industrialists; all good enough for me. Halal kebab makers are the only true kebab makers! If a billion Chinese can use something without it being a problem, it seems quite likely that I can too. We're all the same species and have mostly the same problems. It doesn't actually make sense that I need a foreign union to negotiate to let me use foreign goods. My own government could, I kid you not, just let me buy what I want and get it shipped over. It'd be easier. The local standards aren't perfect.
    - _19qg 4y ago
      > I took an American one. Me, too. > They're safe enough. How did I know that? Because, the EU and the US work closely together and the regulations make sure that they work with common standard levels. Each country has a system which regulates which vaccines it considers safe. In EU this is expanded such that the permissions are valid for the common market. The EU has EXPANDED the region where vaccines are permitted under a common regulation, it has not reduced it. Just the opposite. > Why shouldn't people in China be able to use European vaccines? For example because China wants to reduce the influence of other countries? Because it wants to promote their own companies? Because foreign vaccines are too expensive? > If a billion Chinese can use something without it being a problem How do you know that it does not cause problems for you? Currently it looks like China has a problem with Vaccines. > We're all the same species and have mostly the same problems. That sounds silly. Governments, regulators, companies, ... all have different policies, interests, etc. That creates a lot of DIFFERENT problems. > need a foreign union to negotiate to let me use foreign goods. My own government could The EU is not a foreign union. It the Union I'm living in. Just like my city, my state, my country, the EU all have different responsibilities. Why should my country dictate laws to my city? It does. Because we are all the same species and have mostly the same problems. In my state, my country, the EU. Those all have negotiated the levels of power they are responsible for.
      - roenxi 4y ago
        I mean, you're in a position where you live in the EU and took an American vaccine that was approved for use in the US. All your customs office has contributed here is a rubber stamp saying "the work the Americans have already done is good enough" in case you are a jingoist who doesn't trust the US standard. The potential downside is if they vacillate then they'll delay the vaccine availability despite the fact that the option was available. I put it to you that this is why the EU gets a lot of hate. People struggle to come up with examples of where it helped things along. There are decent odds here that Trump's policies did more for you on this topic than your own regulators, which I think it not be what you want in an example that you bought up. > For example because China wants to reduce the influence of other countries? Because it wants to promote their own companies? Because foreign vaccines are too expensive? You argue a few lines down that the Chinese have a problem with vaccines, so I put it to you that you actually believe the Chinese policy is worse than nothing. These reasons are terrible excuses for not letting a product over a border. Literally sacrificing lives for business interests in defiance of what a free market would do. >> We're all the same species and have mostly the same problems. > That sounds silly. I'm not sure I can argue against this, but I urge you to reconsider what species you are a part of, and what the implications are if the problems are being created by the regulators rather than the underlying reality.

by lispm 4y ago

roenxi 4y ago

That suggests there is a problem with the local policies. I recall when the US had that baby formula crisis and people couldn't import the stuff because of local policies. Which is obviously stupid. There were starving babies. US babies aren't that different from EU, APAC, or South American babies. The crisis was a self inflicted wound. And by far most of the time, the idea that a good is OK in one country but unacceptable in another is silly. It is quite rare that a good that can be sold somewhere needs to be restricted somewhere else. It happens in rare cases, but far less than most policies would have us believe.

lispm 4y ago
> the idea that a good is OK in one country but unacceptable in another is silly. Goods are produced under very different standards, different subvention systems, different economic systems, different economic policies, ... For example in the EU the Chinese Covid vaccine(s) have no permissions. Likewise China does not allow European vaccines to be imported. Each country has their own reasons for that. It's not because the regulators are silly. It's because they have different standards and different interests. In large free trade zones and joint markets like the EU, there are common standards and a common court for disputes. The EU as a union, just like any country in the world, negotiates the trade agreements with other countries, ...
- roenxi 4y ago
  That example does sound a bit silly. I took an American one. I'm not American. I'm fine. They're safe enough. The vaccine doesn't know it moved countries. Why shouldn't people in China be able to use European vaccines? Are their policies not evidence based? Are we going to call Chinese people unvaccinated en mass until they take European vaccines? If not, why can't Europeans use Chinese vaccines? > Goods are produced under very different standards, different subvention systems, different economic systems, different economic policies, ... That isn't an explanation or an argument, that is just a list of things which are true. I'm happy to read that list and then buy things that are different from what I'm used to. I'll buy stuff made by Communists, Capitalists, Muslims, fools, industrialists; all good enough for me. Halal kebab makers are the only true kebab makers! If a billion Chinese can use something without it being a problem, it seems quite likely that I can too. We're all the same species and have mostly the same problems. It doesn't actually make sense that I need a foreign union to negotiate to let me use foreign goods. My own government could, I kid you not, just let me buy what I want and get it shipped over. It'd be easier. The local standards aren't perfect.
  - _19qg 4y ago
    > I took an American one. Me, too. > They're safe enough. How did I know that? Because, the EU and the US work closely together and the regulations make sure that they work with common standard levels. Each country has a system which regulates which vaccines it considers safe. In EU this is expanded such that the permissions are valid for the common market. The EU has EXPANDED the region where vaccines are permitted under a common regulation, it has not reduced it. Just the opposite. > Why shouldn't people in China be able to use European vaccines? For example because China wants to reduce the influence of other countries? Because it wants to promote their own companies? Because foreign vaccines are too expensive? > If a billion Chinese can use something without it being a problem How do you know that it does not cause problems for you? Currently it looks like China has a problem with Vaccines. > We're all the same species and have mostly the same problems. That sounds silly. Governments, regulators, companies, ... all have different policies, interests, etc. That creates a lot of DIFFERENT problems. > need a foreign union to negotiate to let me use foreign goods. My own government could The EU is not a foreign union. It the Union I'm living in. Just like my city, my state, my country, the EU all have different responsibilities. Why should my country dictate laws to my city? It does. Because we are all the same species and have mostly the same problems. In my state, my country, the EU. Those all have negotiated the levels of power they are responsible for.
    - roenxi 4y ago
      I mean, you're in a position where you live in the EU and took an American vaccine that was approved for use in the US. All your customs office has contributed here is a rubber stamp saying "the work the Americans have already done is good enough" in case you are a jingoist who doesn't trust the US standard. The potential downside is if they vacillate then they'll delay the vaccine availability despite the fact that the option was available. I put it to you that this is why the EU gets a lot of hate. People struggle to come up with examples of where it helped things along. There are decent odds here that Trump's policies did more for you on this topic than your own regulators, which I think it not be what you want in an example that you bought up. > For example because China wants to reduce the influence of other countries? Because it wants to promote their own companies? Because foreign vaccines are too expensive? You argue a few lines down that the Chinese have a problem with vaccines, so I put it to you that you actually believe the Chinese policy is worse than nothing. These reasons are terrible excuses for not letting a product over a border. Literally sacrificing lives for business interests in defiance of what a free market would do. >> We're all the same species and have mostly the same problems. > That sounds silly. I'm not sure I can argue against this, but I urge you to reconsider what species you are a part of, and what the implications are if the problems are being created by the regulators rather than the underlying reality.