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> HN has celebrated their redesigning the iPhone to use a more standard connector though so there are pro- and con-. Can't tell if you're being flip, so I'll a

> HN has celebrated their redesigning the iPhone to use a more standard connector though so there are pro- and con-. Can't tell if you're being flip, so I'll add this one: the ease of producing products in country A and shipping them to country B without having to go through customs. Given that Brexit happened and companies which predate Brexit still exist in the U.K., the reader has plenty of data to decide whether this constitutes a significant digit in the "pro" column.

roenxi 4y ago
It is extremely arguable whether the EU is necessary for that though. There is no magic barrier preventing goods moving across the border except that the customs department decides to interfere. > Can't tell if you're being flip I can't tell if HN is being flippant. I've never seen such unanimous approval for a powerful entity engaged in triviality. The world has not confronted the level of threat we currently have of international industrial war for 70 years, and one of things that most bought people together celebrating the EU's contribution to the world seemed to be ... phone charger cables. It seemed to be the stand-out example of the EU doing something simultaneously newsworthy, well liked and good, which is concerning. People in the halls of power in the EU don't seem to have been focusing on the important issues if issues like that are what generate praise. Doubly so because the EU has failed to produce anyone who knows how to design a good phone. All the industrial muscle for that is in Asia and America along with the track records of success.
- lispm 4y ago
  > There is no magic barrier preventing goods moving across the border except that the customs department decides to interfere. Customs policies are based on international trade agreements and local policies. The 'custom department' is just executing. > one of things that most bought people together celebrating the EU's contribution to the world seemed to be ... phone charger cables You made that up.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    That suggests there is a problem with the local policies. I recall when the US had that baby formula crisis and people couldn't import the stuff because of local policies. Which is obviously stupid. There were starving babies. US babies aren't that different from EU, APAC, or South American babies. The crisis was a self inflicted wound. And by far most of the time, the idea that a good is OK in one country but unacceptable in another is silly. It is quite rare that a good that can be sold somewhere needs to be restricted somewhere else. It happens in rare cases, but far less than most policies would have us believe.
    - lispm 4y ago
      > the idea that a good is OK in one country but unacceptable in another is silly. Goods are produced under very different standards, different subvention systems, different economic systems, different economic policies, ... For example in the EU the Chinese Covid vaccine(s) have no permissions. Likewise China does not allow European vaccines to be imported. Each country has their own reasons for that. It's not because the regulators are silly. It's because they have different standards and different interests. In large free trade zones and joint markets like the EU, there are common standards and a common court for disputes. The EU as a union, just like any country in the world, negotiates the trade agreements with other countries, ...
      - roenxi 4y ago
        That example does sound a bit silly. I took an American one. I'm not American. I'm fine. They're safe enough. The vaccine doesn't know it moved countries. Why shouldn't people in China be able to use European vaccines? Are their policies not evidence based? Are we going to call Chinese people unvaccinated en mass until they take European vaccines? If not, why can't Europeans use Chinese vaccines? > Goods are produced under very different standards, different subvention systems, different economic systems, different economic policies, ... That isn't an explanation or an argument, that is just a list of things which are true. I'm happy to read that list and then buy things that are different from what I'm used to. I'll buy stuff made by Communists, Capitalists, Muslims, fools, industrialists; all good enough for me. Halal kebab makers are the only true kebab makers! If a billion Chinese can use something without it being a problem, it seems quite likely that I can too. We're all the same species and have mostly the same problems. It doesn't actually make sense that I need a foreign union to negotiate to let me use foreign goods. My own government could, I kid you not, just let me buy what I want and get it shipped over. It'd be easier. The local standards aren't perfect.
- jancsika 4y ago
  > It is extremely arguable whether the EU is necessary for that though. We were talking about the very real pros and cons of the EU. You provided a single "pro" EU datum about chargers that is a) real and b) IMO trivializing at best wrt the benefits of EU-membership as the EU currently exists. I gave you what I considered to be a more representative example: the convenience of shipping times/costs intra-EU. Brexit gives us plenty of data to compare pre vs. post on this issue. Now you're waxing philosophical about whether the EU is necessary to achieve the "pro" that I gave you. It's as if I just slid down the flagpole in Super Mario Bros., but now the game wants me to go backwards and consider how to build other routes for this same level.

roenxi 4y ago

It is extremely arguable whether the EU is necessary for that though. There is no magic barrier preventing goods moving across the border except that the customs department decides to interfere. > Can't tell if you're being flip I can't tell if HN is being flippant. I've never seen such unanimous approval for a powerful entity engaged in triviality. The world has not confronted the level of threat we currently have of international industrial war for 70 years, and one of things that most bought people together celebrating the EU's contribution to the world seemed to be ... phone charger cables. It seemed to be the stand-out example of the EU doing something simultaneously newsworthy, well liked and good, which is concerning. People in the halls of power in the EU don't seem to have been focusing on the important issues if issues like that are what generate praise. Doubly so because the EU has failed to produce anyone who knows how to design a good phone. All the industrial muscle for that is in Asia and America along with the track records of success.

lispm 4y ago
> There is no magic barrier preventing goods moving across the border except that the customs department decides to interfere. Customs policies are based on international trade agreements and local policies. The 'custom department' is just executing. > one of things that most bought people together celebrating the EU's contribution to the world seemed to be ... phone charger cables You made that up.
- roenxi 4y ago
  That suggests there is a problem with the local policies. I recall when the US had that baby formula crisis and people couldn't import the stuff because of local policies. Which is obviously stupid. There were starving babies. US babies aren't that different from EU, APAC, or South American babies. The crisis was a self inflicted wound. And by far most of the time, the idea that a good is OK in one country but unacceptable in another is silly. It is quite rare that a good that can be sold somewhere needs to be restricted somewhere else. It happens in rare cases, but far less than most policies would have us believe.
  - lispm 4y ago
    > the idea that a good is OK in one country but unacceptable in another is silly. Goods are produced under very different standards, different subvention systems, different economic systems, different economic policies, ... For example in the EU the Chinese Covid vaccine(s) have no permissions. Likewise China does not allow European vaccines to be imported. Each country has their own reasons for that. It's not because the regulators are silly. It's because they have different standards and different interests. In large free trade zones and joint markets like the EU, there are common standards and a common court for disputes. The EU as a union, just like any country in the world, negotiates the trade agreements with other countries, ...
    - roenxi 4y ago
      That example does sound a bit silly. I took an American one. I'm not American. I'm fine. They're safe enough. The vaccine doesn't know it moved countries. Why shouldn't people in China be able to use European vaccines? Are their policies not evidence based? Are we going to call Chinese people unvaccinated en mass until they take European vaccines? If not, why can't Europeans use Chinese vaccines? > Goods are produced under very different standards, different subvention systems, different economic systems, different economic policies, ... That isn't an explanation or an argument, that is just a list of things which are true. I'm happy to read that list and then buy things that are different from what I'm used to. I'll buy stuff made by Communists, Capitalists, Muslims, fools, industrialists; all good enough for me. Halal kebab makers are the only true kebab makers! If a billion Chinese can use something without it being a problem, it seems quite likely that I can too. We're all the same species and have mostly the same problems. It doesn't actually make sense that I need a foreign union to negotiate to let me use foreign goods. My own government could, I kid you not, just let me buy what I want and get it shipped over. It'd be easier. The local standards aren't perfect.
jancsika 4y ago
> It is extremely arguable whether the EU is necessary for that though. We were talking about the very real pros and cons of the EU. You provided a single "pro" EU datum about chargers that is a) real and b) IMO trivializing at best wrt the benefits of EU-membership as the EU currently exists. I gave you what I considered to be a more representative example: the convenience of shipping times/costs intra-EU. Brexit gives us plenty of data to compare pre vs. post on this issue. Now you're waxing philosophical about whether the EU is necessary to achieve the "pro" that I gave you. It's as if I just slid down the flagpole in Super Mario Bros., but now the game wants me to go backwards and consider how to build other routes for this same level.