4 ms·

There are mixed views. I think that is healthy and normal. And as ever, hearing dissenting views helps one strengthen their own position. I'm not sure what th

There are mixed views. I think that is healthy and normal. And as ever, hearing dissenting views helps one strengthen their own position. I'm not sure what the key is here, but maybe it is this. > Are the countries supposed to split up and go back to competing with each other in an increasingly harsher global market? countries are still competing with each other inside the trading block, only they have had many of the advantages they used to have available to them - e.g. their currency and central bank, their deficit spending, the ability to control inputs to their economy - taken away. It's a trade off. It may be right, it may be wrong, but there's a lot of looking at the EU from one perspective only, it's nice to hear other perspectives. For me, I don't see how a EU that doesn't federalise, i.e. doesn't have a single economic policy, doesn't have a single demos, can survive. But even then, most of us live in countries that do have a single fiscal policy, a single demos, a freedom of movement of labour, goods, capital etc within our own country; and still it doesn't work without massive compensation to correct the inequalities that it brings. We have domestic governments trying (or most often not trying) and failing to deal with this imbalance even within a country. I don't see how this will ever be possible at a supernational scale.

ramesh31 4y ago
The single reason the United States works is a unified monetary policy. With a common currency but no single monetary control, we will see endless replays of Greece 2015. It is fundamentally unfair for countries like Germany to enforce austerity on sovreign nations for their own fiscal issues, without a reciprocal ability to declare bankruptcy or expect financial assitance from a central bank.
- gghhzzgghhzz 4y ago
  but the US doesn't work. It has massive regional inequality, in addition to racial and generational. There is massive household debt. It can't function without massive amounts of undocumented labour. Nearly all economic activity is done in a few cities. Many places are over populated compared to the infrastructure (unaffordable housing prices) and many places have lost all their youth. Most companies are registered in a tax haven state. etc. It does have a single demos, which is something the EU doesn't currently have. People will accept in some way to see federal money directed (or debt guaranteed) at communities they are geographically distant to, yet feel solidarity with in some way. I personally feel the demos issue is the key rather than the monetary policy.
  - gnomewrecker 4y ago
    “The US doesn’t work” can only be taken as rhetorical. Perhaps you feel it doesn’t “work” well, and certainly you’ve identified serious flaws. But it’s still there ticking along… if it doesn’t work then “work” is just shorthand for “work the way I want” which isn’t particularly interesting or useful. Separately, I’m not sure that US folks are actually any better at accepting the distribution of their taxes far afield than anyone else but I suppose that could make sense.
    - gghhzzgghhzz 4y ago
      it wasn't necessarily meant as criticism of US, but more trying to point to issues that are relevant in the EU as it is now, or as it will be. it is true that 'does / doesn't work' is subjective.

ramesh31 4y ago

The single reason the United States works is a unified monetary policy. With a common currency but no single monetary control, we will see endless replays of Greece 2015. It is fundamentally unfair for countries like Germany to enforce austerity on sovreign nations for their own fiscal issues, without a reciprocal ability to declare bankruptcy or expect financial assitance from a central bank.

gghhzzgghhzz 4y ago
but the US doesn't work. It has massive regional inequality, in addition to racial and generational. There is massive household debt. It can't function without massive amounts of undocumented labour. Nearly all economic activity is done in a few cities. Many places are over populated compared to the infrastructure (unaffordable housing prices) and many places have lost all their youth. Most companies are registered in a tax haven state. etc. It does have a single demos, which is something the EU doesn't currently have. People will accept in some way to see federal money directed (or debt guaranteed) at communities they are geographically distant to, yet feel solidarity with in some way. I personally feel the demos issue is the key rather than the monetary policy.
- gnomewrecker 4y ago
  “The US doesn’t work” can only be taken as rhetorical. Perhaps you feel it doesn’t “work” well, and certainly you’ve identified serious flaws. But it’s still there ticking along… if it doesn’t work then “work” is just shorthand for “work the way I want” which isn’t particularly interesting or useful. Separately, I’m not sure that US folks are actually any better at accepting the distribution of their taxes far afield than anyone else but I suppose that could make sense.
  - gghhzzgghhzz 4y ago
    it wasn't necessarily meant as criticism of US, but more trying to point to issues that are relevant in the EU as it is now, or as it will be. it is true that 'does / doesn't work' is subjective.