4 ms·

Oxytocin, trust, and reciprocity (2007)

48 points by metadat 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ImHereToVote 4y ago
That one comment on that blog though. What a doozy.
- 9991 4y ago
  2009 was a simpler time.
  - billjings 4y ago
    Eh. That kind of comment was never normal or okay. Or even common...but anti-Muslim rhetoric was absolutely more common in the wake of 9/11.
- dang 4y ago
  "Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - ImHereToVote 4y ago
    I wasn't complaining. I found it amusing, mister busybody.
    - dang 4y ago
      Ok, sorry! (It's just that posts like that tend strongly toward pointless, offtopic flamewars.)
bmacho 4y ago
> Zak: It's the human beings that make a business; a business organization is itself a small society. When you understand that a society's biggest aspect is its people, you realize that you need to run the business as a society. I think oxytocin has potential part to play in the organization of the workplace. > HUG: What can a business do to create a more oxytocin-rich environment? > Zak: First, something I was so skeptical of as a practicing economist: morale building. Going out to the mountain for the day, helping people bond as a team in a stressful situation. > Second, they should create a much more horizontal female structure. Nowadays, the biggest assets a company has are human assets. People want to feel part of a team. I wonder if there are studies about morale building activities.
- doubled112 4y ago
  Forced "fun" is never fun. Morale and team building have only ever pushed me out.
  - jackmott 4y ago
    Some people enjoy that stuff, it’s important for us to remember that, and it is important for them to remember some of us hate it.
  - metadat 4y ago
    Even GoKarts?
    - doubled112 4y ago
      I'll admit I wouldn't need to be forced to GoKarts. It's not really a team activity, though. You could go in a group, but at the end of the day? I'll see you at the finish line.
      - metadat 4y ago
        Agreed, it was fun but I'm not super bonded today with any of the folks I did that with 10+ years ago. Plus nearly all the GoKart places in the bay shutdown.
belorn 4y ago
Oxytocin, the wonder drug that doesn't do what people thought it did. I'm a bit surprised to not see a reference about that in the blog. Could be that it is from 2007. From what I remember of those studies, the way oxytocin operates is that it increases reciprocate behavior towards people perceive as in-group, while at the same time lowering reciprocate behavior towards out-groups. There is some link there in connection with kin-selection. A business that has a oxytocin-rich environment might not be the best place.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- spritefs 4y ago
  > A business that has a oxytocin-rich environment might not be the best place. This is a little tangential, but it reminds me of this archived Washington Post article from the 1980s* about a self help cult > "I wasn't at peace with myself until that moment, when I closed my eyes and hugged myself and felt my arms on my body. I realized I was somebody. I cried enough to fill a glass." Tl;dr of it is this: extreme bonding == crazy * https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/magazine/1987/10/25/i-cried-enough-to-fill-a-glass/c75b0dda-e8ea-46f9-8aea-8e4afdd0cfbe/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/magazine/19...
  - mbg721 4y ago
    As horrifying as the story itself is, I'm impressed that it still exists in a searchable and pasteable way and that you were able to find it.
    - spritefs 4y ago
      I think they mentioned Virginia Thomas being in a cult in a recent article and that lead me to this somehow, maybe wikipedia
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
AndrewDucker 4y ago
The important bit, to me, is: Most people are conditional reciprocators; the more money you send them, the more they tend to send back. About 2 percent of our test subjects were non-reciprocators. Oxytocin typically has an off/on sequence. It's released within seconds in response to a social cue, and then production switches off again. But in about 2 percent of my subjects, the ones who never cooperated, their brains appear not to be turning off their oxytocin production. They are way off the curve for their peripheral oxytocin levels. In addition, they don't seem to respond to oxytocin like other subjects, who reciprocate more strongly the more oxytocin they have. This suggests, although it doesn't prove, that they have a dysfunction in the oxytocin receptors -- the wrong location or inhibited binding -- that causes them to behave like "bastards."

48 points by metadat 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ImHereToVote 4y ago

That one comment on that blog though. What a doozy.

9991 4y ago
2009 was a simpler time.
- billjings 4y ago
  Eh. That kind of comment was never normal or okay. Or even common...but anti-Muslim rhetoric was absolutely more common in the wake of 9/11.
dang 4y ago
"Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ImHereToVote 4y ago
  I wasn't complaining. I found it amusing, mister busybody.
  - dang 4y ago
    Ok, sorry! (It's just that posts like that tend strongly toward pointless, offtopic flamewars.)

bmacho 4y ago

> Zak: It's the human beings that make a business; a business organization is itself a small society. When you understand that a society's biggest aspect is its people, you realize that you need to run the business as a society. I think oxytocin has potential part to play in the organization of the workplace. > HUG: What can a business do to create a more oxytocin-rich environment? > Zak: First, something I was so skeptical of as a practicing economist: morale building. Going out to the mountain for the day, helping people bond as a team in a stressful situation. > Second, they should create a much more horizontal female structure. Nowadays, the biggest assets a company has are human assets. People want to feel part of a team. I wonder if there are studies about morale building activities.

doubled112 4y ago
Forced "fun" is never fun. Morale and team building have only ever pushed me out.
- jackmott 4y ago
  Some people enjoy that stuff, it’s important for us to remember that, and it is important for them to remember some of us hate it.
- metadat 4y ago
  Even GoKarts?
  - doubled112 4y ago
    I'll admit I wouldn't need to be forced to GoKarts. It's not really a team activity, though. You could go in a group, but at the end of the day? I'll see you at the finish line.
    - metadat 4y ago
      Agreed, it was fun but I'm not super bonded today with any of the folks I did that with 10+ years ago. Plus nearly all the GoKart places in the bay shutdown.

belorn 4y ago

Oxytocin, the wonder drug that doesn't do what people thought it did. I'm a bit surprised to not see a reference about that in the blog. Could be that it is from 2007. From what I remember of those studies, the way oxytocin operates is that it increases reciprocate behavior towards people perceive as in-group, while at the same time lowering reciprocate behavior towards out-groups. There is some link there in connection with kin-selection. A business that has a oxytocin-rich environment might not be the best place.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
spritefs 4y ago
> A business that has a oxytocin-rich environment might not be the best place. This is a little tangential, but it reminds me of this archived Washington Post article from the 1980s* about a self help cult > "I wasn't at peace with myself until that moment, when I closed my eyes and hugged myself and felt my arms on my body. I realized I was somebody. I cried enough to fill a glass." Tl;dr of it is this: extreme bonding == crazy * https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/magazine/1987/10/25/i-cried-enough-to-fill-a-glass/c75b0dda-e8ea-46f9-8aea-8e4afdd0cfbe/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/magazine/19...
- mbg721 4y ago
  As horrifying as the story itself is, I'm impressed that it still exists in a searchable and pasteable way and that you were able to find it.
  - spritefs 4y ago
    I think they mentioned Virginia Thomas being in a cult in a recent article and that lead me to this somehow, maybe wikipedia

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

AndrewDucker 4y ago

The important bit, to me, is: Most people are conditional reciprocators; the more money you send them, the more they tend to send back. About 2 percent of our test subjects were non-reciprocators. Oxytocin typically has an off/on sequence. It's released within seconds in response to a social cue, and then production switches off again. But in about 2 percent of my subjects, the ones who never cooperated, their brains appear not to be turning off their oxytocin production. They are way off the curve for their peripheral oxytocin levels. In addition, they don't seem to respond to oxytocin like other subjects, who reciprocate more strongly the more oxytocin they have. This suggests, although it doesn't prove, that they have a dysfunction in the oxytocin receptors -- the wrong location or inhibited binding -- that causes them to behave like "bastards."