3 ms·

What's wrong with employees just voting with their feet, instead of mandating rules like this? If a company behaves horribly just go somewhere else

Apocryphon 4y ago
Doesn't seem to happen in tech judging by Amazon horror stories about PIP culture and the like.
- klipt 4y ago
  I think it's pretty easy for an average US citizen or green card holder engineer who gets pipped at Amazon to get hired elsewhere. The people who really get screwed are the OPTs/H1-Bs who have a very short grace period to get a new job or leave the country.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Sure, but 1) it goes to show that tech workers won't necessarily "vote with their feet", 2) in the event of an industry-wide downturn, that ability to vote becomes far more limited.
    - leereeves 4y ago
      Amazon pays software engineers very well (compared to software engineering jobs in general). Perhaps people don't vote with their feet because they like the money.
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        Amazon comp was entirely predicated on stock, wasn't it? Because they uniquely have a salary cap that's not particularly high. https://www.levels.fyi/blog/amazon-salary-negotiation.html https://www.levels.fyi/blog/amazon-salary-negotiation.html It seems like there is more Amazon non-warehouse employees interest in unionizing now anyway: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-layoffs-corporate-employees-discuss-forming-union-unionization-2022-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-layoffs-corporate-emp...
        comp_throw7 4y ago
        Not exactly - while the initial stock they grant vests on a 5/15/40/40 schedule, they also have a large cash "bonus" which "vests" monthly for the first two years. With their assumption of 15% stock growth per year, you should have equal TC per year for your first 4 years. Of course, assuming 15% annual stock growth is silly, but you can run the numbers however you want. The point is that compensation for the first two years is predominantly cash.
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  No? I've definitely heard stories that Amazon is having a harder time hiring people because many workers are churning out.

Apocryphon 4y ago

Doesn't seem to happen in tech judging by Amazon horror stories about PIP culture and the like.

klipt 4y ago
I think it's pretty easy for an average US citizen or green card holder engineer who gets pipped at Amazon to get hired elsewhere. The people who really get screwed are the OPTs/H1-Bs who have a very short grace period to get a new job or leave the country.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Sure, but 1) it goes to show that tech workers won't necessarily "vote with their feet", 2) in the event of an industry-wide downturn, that ability to vote becomes far more limited.
  - leereeves 4y ago
    Amazon pays software engineers very well (compared to software engineering jobs in general). Perhaps people don't vote with their feet because they like the money.
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      Amazon comp was entirely predicated on stock, wasn't it? Because they uniquely have a salary cap that's not particularly high. https://www.levels.fyi/blog/amazon-salary-negotiation.html https://www.levels.fyi/blog/amazon-salary-negotiation.html It seems like there is more Amazon non-warehouse employees interest in unionizing now anyway: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-layoffs-corporate-employees-discuss-forming-union-unionization-2022-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-layoffs-corporate-emp...
      - comp_throw7 4y ago
        Not exactly - while the initial stock they grant vests on a 5/15/40/40 schedule, they also have a large cash "bonus" which "vests" monthly for the first two years. With their assumption of 15% stock growth per year, you should have equal TC per year for your first 4 years. Of course, assuming 15% annual stock growth is silly, but you can run the numbers however you want. The point is that compensation for the first two years is predominantly cash.
satvikpendem 4y ago
No? I've definitely heard stories that Amazon is having a harder time hiring people because many workers are churning out.