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> People who look at history often see unions becoming a solution in search of a problem. Unions are the reason we have a 40-hour workweek, minimum wage and th

> People who look at history often see unions becoming a solution in search of a problem. Unions are the reason we have a 40-hour workweek, minimum wage and the Civil Rights Act. If you're not working today (Saturday), you can thank organized labor efforts for that. They've deeply impacted our work lives in ways that are not immediately apparent to those that haven't read about them.

dehrmann 4y ago
> Civil Rights Act Do you have a source for this? The Wikipedia entry on the Civil Rights Act hardly mentions unions.
- yerpyerpyerp 4y ago
  Unions were integral to the success of the Civil Rights Movement. Without them, boycotts would not have been successful. MLK Jr. spoke often about the rights of workers in his speeches, although this is rarely discussed today outside of leftist circles.[0] There's quite a bit of literature on organized labor's relationship to the Civil Rights Movement, here are just a couple of examples[1][2]. 0: https://www.afscme.org/about/history/mlk/dr-martin-luther-king-jr-on-labor https://www.afscme.org/about/history/mlk/dr-martin-luther-ki... 1: https://teamster.org/2021/02/civil-rights-and-the-labor-movement-a-historical-overview/ https://teamster.org/2021/02/civil-rights-and-the-labor-move... 2: https://www.epi.org/blog/labor-rights-and-civil-rights-one-intertwined-struggle-for-all-workers/ https://www.epi.org/blog/labor-rights-and-civil-rights-one-i...
nitwit005 4y ago
Sort of. The truth tends to be more complicated. Religious groups were important in the weekend becoming a thing. It's not a coincidence it includes the two days Jews and Christians typically attend religious services. Unions did have a role in the Civil Rights act, but they were not the only backers, and were hardly uniform in their support. Unions in the South had pushed blacks out of entire industries.
logicalmonster 4y ago
> Unions are the reason we have a 40-hour workweek I'm open to a discussion on this, but I'd make an argument that the biggest direct factor that caused improvements like 40 weekly hours of work being possible isn't unionization, but the overall process of industrialization. Many people always seem to forget that employers also have to compete for labor. Once a society becomes wealthy enough through industrialization, the setting for better working conditions emerges and becomes possible; whether it's union agitation or simply market competition for workers that pushes them there. The root condition that has to be in place is industrialization. To illustrate this, I'd offer a thought experiment. Imagine a dirt poor country with no machinery that multiplies their labor. People there currently need to work at least 80 hours a week just to feed their families low-quality gruel and give them rags to wear. How does this hypothetical country ever get to 40 hours of work a week without starving? It doesn't matter how well-intentioned and powerful their unions are, their only path to living at 40 hours per week is going through the shitty process of industrializing and becoming efficient enough first. > minimum wage I would strongly argue that an enforced minimum wage isn't the act of love it sounds like, but an act of supreme hatred. It completely locks the most disadvantaged out of the labor market. I know some borderline mentally/physically limited people who hate feeling useless and would love to have some kind of routine and feel like they can contribute to society in a small way and benefit themselves a bit with some kind of job, but due to their working speed and special challenges, there's no way they can be employable at a normal minimum wage for any task. The minimum wage doesn't help them: it just makes the least advantaged among us as depressed wards of the state who rot away their lives because they're completely locked out of a normal life in the world.

dehrmann 4y ago

> Civil Rights Act Do you have a source for this? The Wikipedia entry on the Civil Rights Act hardly mentions unions.

yerpyerpyerp 4y ago
Unions were integral to the success of the Civil Rights Movement. Without them, boycotts would not have been successful. MLK Jr. spoke often about the rights of workers in his speeches, although this is rarely discussed today outside of leftist circles.[0] There's quite a bit of literature on organized labor's relationship to the Civil Rights Movement, here are just a couple of examples[1][2]. 0: https://www.afscme.org/about/history/mlk/dr-martin-luther-king-jr-on-labor https://www.afscme.org/about/history/mlk/dr-martin-luther-ki... 1: https://teamster.org/2021/02/civil-rights-and-the-labor-movement-a-historical-overview/ https://teamster.org/2021/02/civil-rights-and-the-labor-move... 2: https://www.epi.org/blog/labor-rights-and-civil-rights-one-intertwined-struggle-for-all-workers/ https://www.epi.org/blog/labor-rights-and-civil-rights-one-i...

nitwit005 4y ago

Sort of. The truth tends to be more complicated. Religious groups were important in the weekend becoming a thing. It's not a coincidence it includes the two days Jews and Christians typically attend religious services. Unions did have a role in the Civil Rights act, but they were not the only backers, and were hardly uniform in their support. Unions in the South had pushed blacks out of entire industries.

logicalmonster 4y ago

> Unions are the reason we have a 40-hour workweek I'm open to a discussion on this, but I'd make an argument that the biggest direct factor that caused improvements like 40 weekly hours of work being possible isn't unionization, but the overall process of industrialization. Many people always seem to forget that employers also have to compete for labor. Once a society becomes wealthy enough through industrialization, the setting for better working conditions emerges and becomes possible; whether it's union agitation or simply market competition for workers that pushes them there. The root condition that has to be in place is industrialization. To illustrate this, I'd offer a thought experiment. Imagine a dirt poor country with no machinery that multiplies their labor. People there currently need to work at least 80 hours a week just to feed their families low-quality gruel and give them rags to wear. How does this hypothetical country ever get to 40 hours of work a week without starving? It doesn't matter how well-intentioned and powerful their unions are, their only path to living at 40 hours per week is going through the shitty process of industrializing and becoming efficient enough first. > minimum wage I would strongly argue that an enforced minimum wage isn't the act of love it sounds like, but an act of supreme hatred. It completely locks the most disadvantaged out of the labor market. I know some borderline mentally/physically limited people who hate feeling useless and would love to have some kind of routine and feel like they can contribute to society in a small way and benefit themselves a bit with some kind of job, but due to their working speed and special challenges, there's no way they can be employable at a normal minimum wage for any task. The minimum wage doesn't help them: it just makes the least advantaged among us as depressed wards of the state who rot away their lives because they're completely locked out of a normal life in the world.