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I absolutely expect us to not achieve our usual Air Dominance when this fight with China inevitably goes kinetic. While our pilots still possess the essential

I absolutely expect us to not achieve our usual Air Dominance when this fight with China inevitably goes kinetic. While our pilots still possess the essential skills and munitions to peel back an Integrated Air-Defense System (seems the Russians lack both of those), I don't think we are prepared for the ridiculous numerical disparity we will face here in the First Island Chain, combined with the reasonable qualitative parity of Chinese assets.

cpursley 4y ago
If the data is correct, Russian integrated air defense is better than what the US or west can muster at the moment (just read up a little on these systems and how they integrate, Russians math good). They might suck at practically everything else, but not air defense. This is pretty widely acknowledged by western experts. In fact, the old S-300s and Buks in Ukraine have been pretty effective and probably what spooks the Russians from using their air force in mass. Even those old systems are probably better than the Patriot for a lot of tasks. There's even been talks of sending more S-300s from Greece because they work and Ukraine knows how to operate them.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  > There's even been talks of sending more S-300s from Greece because they work and Ukraine knows how to operate them. That would be unwise from a Greek perspective, because of Erdolfs ambitions and posture.
- CapricornNoble 4y ago
  I re-read my post and I can see that it is unclear. I meant the Russians lack trained PILOTS, not that they lack decent IADS. I agree that Russian/Soviet SAMs are overall pretty damn good, and deserve to be respected. I think Soviet doctrine of robust air defenses at all ranges/capability levels is proving prescient. The US in particular finally realized they need to play catch-up when it comes to SHORAD.
scarmig 4y ago
Speaking more generally, I'm curious to hear what your speculations are in terms of a war with China. Most people seem to think it'll be a walk in the park for either the US or China, but I think it'll end up a kind of stalemate, with China and Taiwan both facing extreme privation from sea blockades, the Strait and SCS being a charnel house, and the world experiencing a massive economic disruption; domestic politics in democratic states would determine the terms of the final resolution.
- CapricornNoble 4y ago
  >>>I'm curious to hear what your speculations are in terms of a war with China. Well, honestly your next sentence is pretty on the mark in broad terms: sea blockades, massive asset destruction in the main conflict zone, global economic impacts and political chaos. I think the Chinese are using Russia's Ukraine failure to re-do their math about an amphibious assault aimed at Taipei (100x more difficult than driving across a land border into Kiev). I still expect their combination of ballistic missiles, land-based airpower (including old aircraft converted into drones/guided bombs), and a metric boatload of surface ships to wreck most US combat power in the region with sheer mass. We simply don't have enough assets or enough AMMO forward deployed here to maintain supremacy right on China's doorstep. The big question marks are the responses from other local powers. We expect the Japanese to help if attacked, but what if they aren't targeted directly by China? The Japanese -N-a-v-y- "Maritime Self-Defense Force" is large and competent and we need them to counter the Eastern Theater Command Navy. Will the Philippines let us stage combat power in their territory? What will Vietnam do in the SCS? Will India distract China in the Himalayas? Even if we get the upper hand in combat, maybe after 90+ days when we've gotten reinforcements from allies, from the continental US, etc....at BEST the situation becomes "Well China, we sank your entire Navy and Marine Corps, and killed most of your Air Force pilots......can we consider this 'Taiwan unification' issue settled?". The concern is that Xi Jinping and the CCP have staked their regime's reputation on this one goal. It's the same problem with Putin and Ukraine: failure is a guaranteed regime-ending scenario from domestic discontent, so they might just double down no matter how irrational it appears, and if the CCP can foster sufficient nationalism from the population, we could be looking at a LOOOOOONG bloody conflict and total economic chaos.

cpursley 4y ago

If the data is correct, Russian integrated air defense is better than what the US or west can muster at the moment (just read up a little on these systems and how they integrate, Russians math good). They might suck at practically everything else, but not air defense. This is pretty widely acknowledged by western experts. In fact, the old S-300s and Buks in Ukraine have been pretty effective and probably what spooks the Russians from using their air force in mass. Even those old systems are probably better than the Patriot for a lot of tasks. There's even been talks of sending more S-300s from Greece because they work and Ukraine knows how to operate them.

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
> There's even been talks of sending more S-300s from Greece because they work and Ukraine knows how to operate them. That would be unwise from a Greek perspective, because of Erdolfs ambitions and posture.
CapricornNoble 4y ago
I re-read my post and I can see that it is unclear. I meant the Russians lack trained PILOTS, not that they lack decent IADS. I agree that Russian/Soviet SAMs are overall pretty damn good, and deserve to be respected. I think Soviet doctrine of robust air defenses at all ranges/capability levels is proving prescient. The US in particular finally realized they need to play catch-up when it comes to SHORAD.

scarmig 4y ago

Speaking more generally, I'm curious to hear what your speculations are in terms of a war with China. Most people seem to think it'll be a walk in the park for either the US or China, but I think it'll end up a kind of stalemate, with China and Taiwan both facing extreme privation from sea blockades, the Strait and SCS being a charnel house, and the world experiencing a massive economic disruption; domestic politics in democratic states would determine the terms of the final resolution.

CapricornNoble 4y ago
>>>I'm curious to hear what your speculations are in terms of a war with China. Well, honestly your next sentence is pretty on the mark in broad terms: sea blockades, massive asset destruction in the main conflict zone, global economic impacts and political chaos. I think the Chinese are using Russia's Ukraine failure to re-do their math about an amphibious assault aimed at Taipei (100x more difficult than driving across a land border into Kiev). I still expect their combination of ballistic missiles, land-based airpower (including old aircraft converted into drones/guided bombs), and a metric boatload of surface ships to wreck most US combat power in the region with sheer mass. We simply don't have enough assets or enough AMMO forward deployed here to maintain supremacy right on China's doorstep. The big question marks are the responses from other local powers. We expect the Japanese to help if attacked, but what if they aren't targeted directly by China? The Japanese -N-a-v-y- "Maritime Self-Defense Force" is large and competent and we need them to counter the Eastern Theater Command Navy. Will the Philippines let us stage combat power in their territory? What will Vietnam do in the SCS? Will India distract China in the Himalayas? Even if we get the upper hand in combat, maybe after 90+ days when we've gotten reinforcements from allies, from the continental US, etc....at BEST the situation becomes "Well China, we sank your entire Navy and Marine Corps, and killed most of your Air Force pilots......can we consider this 'Taiwan unification' issue settled?". The concern is that Xi Jinping and the CCP have staked their regime's reputation on this one goal. It's the same problem with Putin and Ukraine: failure is a guaranteed regime-ending scenario from domestic discontent, so they might just double down no matter how irrational it appears, and if the CCP can foster sufficient nationalism from the population, we could be looking at a LOOOOOONG bloody conflict and total economic chaos.