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Tell that to: Hawaii, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, cnmi, the U.S. Virgin Islands. Seems like the narrative of not being an empire might be a bit of a myth
by bebop 4y ago
Tell that to: Hawaii, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, cnmi, the U.S. Virgin Islands. Seems like the narrative of not being an empire might be a bit of a myth in practice.
- credit_guy 4y agoIs there a single one in this list that would prefer not to be part of the US? Empire is when you keep people subjugated against their will. The US is the opposite of an empire.
- adastra22 4y agophilippines, cuba, panama people are forgetting their history
- credit_guy 4y agoWhat about them? Doesn't look to me they are part of the US.
- adastra22 4y agoRead up on their history re: US occupation.
- credit_guy 4y agoI guess you're trying to make a point. If my point was not clear enough: if the US was an empire, all these territories would continue to be under US occupation. Also Japan. West Germany too. Now, here's the funny thing. Lots of people who hold the view that the US imperialistic, find various excuses for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Some even go as far as claiming that the US aid to Ukraine is nothing but some further proof of the US imperialism. I'd be very curious to hear where you are on that.
- kragen 4y agocondorcet demonstrated 200 years ago that it's incoherent to talk about what a group of more than four people collectively wants arrow sharpened this result to a needle point in the 01940s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theore... the nature of government is that it keeps people, individually, subjugated against their will; police that can only arrest people who want to be arrested, prisons who can only imprison people who want to be imprisoned, or armies that can only beat armies that want to be beaten, are not effective police, prisons, or armies empires have always worked by having subject governments willingly accept their subjugation by the empire; the 'willingness' of guam or samoa or hawai‘i to be governed by the usa is no different democracy is still better than dictatorship or other forms of monarchy, but it is a mistake to confuse the decisions of democratic governments with the desires of their citizens
- bebop 4y agoShort answer: Yes. I can speak to my experience in Hawaii (that is the only place on the list I have lived). There is a significant and vocal minority of Native Hawaiians (and supporters) that would very much like to have their country restored. The Kingdom of Hawaii was illegally overthrown and the US apologized for its direct involvement in the overthrow: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-107/pdf/STATUTE-107-Pg1510.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-107/pdf/STATUTE-.... To the point of preference of staying a part of the United States, the majority in all of the Territories (and the State of Hawaii), I assume, would prefer to remain in the United States, yes. However, that is a disingenuous question. The most recent territories have been a part of the United States for almost 100 years, that is, several generations. What else would these populations be in favor of? Indeed, the people of Hawaii, given a choice in 1875, would have preferred the reinstatement of the Kingdom of Hawaii.
- credit_guy 4y agoIn 1959, when Hawaii was admitted as a state, there was a referendum and more than 93% of the voters were in favor of the admission. The attendance was more than 90% of the registered voters [1]. That to me shows a lot of enthusiasm for joining the US. But of course, 60 years later, you can always find some vocal minority with a nostalgia for an idyllic past that never existed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Admission_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Admission_Act
- mlindner 4y agoSeveral of those territories came into US control after being controlled by an explicitly imperial power, namely Imperial Japan. And there have many territories that have seeked independence from the US following being recovered from Japan and have subsequently been granted it. Those you mention do not want to leave the United States.
- kragen 4y agoalso historically the philippines, micronesia, germany, japan, venezuela, ...
- bebop 4y agoAnd still sorta kinda in micronesia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_of_Free_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_of_Free_Association