5 ms·

Corporate food production should not be allowed. Free markets are not fair enough to make sure everyone is properly fed, and once enough of it is owned they wil

by knubie 4y ago

Corporate food production should not be allowed. Free markets are not fair enough to make sure everyone is properly fed, and once enough of it is owned they will price gouge. There are plenty of other places for companies to make money.

ehnto 4y ago
If you think there is no difference between the food industry and real estate, then I am afraid that is a failing of your own deductions. The issue I forsee is deep pockets cornering specific markets and dictating the price to people who haven't got as much flexibility. Corporate scale slum lords, in other words. It is already happening with private real estate investors. Anyone can ship in and sell potatoes, I can even buy them online. The market forces work because I have so much flexibility. Not everyone can move, nor should they have to move just because money moves in. People live in communities not investment potfolios.
- gruez 4y ago
  >Anyone can ship in and sell potatoes, I can even buy them online. The market forces work because I have so much flexibility. Not everyone can move, nor should they have to move just because money moves in. But within a given city you have a choice of hundreds, or even thousands of landlords? Any specific building might only be owned by one landlord, but you don't exactly have to move to the other side of a city to get away from that landlord.
  - albertsondev 4y ago
    That's no guarantee either, especially with increasing consolidation of land under larger corporate umbrellas. I recently moved away from Columbus after getting on the bad side of an investment group that seems to own nearly all of the publicly-listed apartments in the area within my price bracket, and are still actively buying up more. Said bracket is fairly low, granted, but it's all I can afford on even a decent full-time income, especially with other expenses spiking as of late. Columbus has recently found itself to be the new largest city and center of economic growth in the state, and changed rapidly and radically over the past couple of decades. As a result, it's nowhere near as seasoned and well-established as many other major metros, and the massive influx of new monied interests into the area quickly cornered their respective markets. Moving back to the Cleveland area, which was quite the boom town a century ago but has infamously been in near-perpetual decline ever since (with many residents, like I had, migrating to Columbus), has much healthier competition in the rental market. Perhaps in a few decades as new assets are built and today's ones slosh around the economy, Columbus will have healthier, more diverse competition and see your point ring true. It's certainly healthy in other sectors—one of my favorite things about living there was the great wealth of hole-in-the-wall bodegas, ethnic grocers, restaurants, and food trucks around me that meant even on my last dime I could always try new cuisines—but at least for those of us for whom even a high five-figure income is a distant dream, options are very limited.
    - Firmwarrior 4y ago
      Hey man, I agree 100% on the point you're making. BUT if you're reading hacker news in your spare time for fun, you can definitely find a remote gig that pays a comfortable six figure income and elevates you to membership in the class of people putting the squeeze on middle America. I don't know you or your situation, so I can't provide any real advice, but I can say with absolute certainty that something is out there for you
      - albertsondev 4y ago
        So I'd like to think. In reality my skills don't exist on paper save for basic helldesk work, and even that's been a crapshoot. Loving the positivity, though. Should probably throw more work into networking and portfolio pieces in between shifts.
wildrhythms 4y ago
Is this supposed to be a snarky retort to the idea that housing should not be owned by a corporation? Food production in America today is already heavily subsidized by the state[1], and despite these subsidies, and despite America's immense food production and exports, there are still people going hungry in every city. [1] https://perc.tamu.edu/PERC-Blog/PERC-Blog/U-S-Farm-Subsidies-A-Prime-Example-of-Crony-Capita https://perc.tamu.edu/PERC-Blog/PERC-Blog/U-S-Farm-Subsidies...
HarryHirsch 4y ago
You are aware that food riots routinely bring down governments, which is why there is government policy that keeps the price of food affordable. (It also brought us consolidation and rural depopulation, but that's the price you pay.) The thing that's really worrying is this - real estate is inherently unproductive. Investment capital ought to be steered into areas that yield technological progress, not into the equivalent of gold stored inside a mattress. That's the real reason that policy that keeps housing affordable is needed. It's not only good social policy but also good technological policy.
- spacemadness 4y ago
  Housing as a speculative investment is absolute lunacy and entirely unfair to upcoming generations. I agree this is not where investment funds should be going. It’s doing nothing but cause mass financial struggle to younger generations to enrich older generations—but what else is new. The incentives need to change to shut down NIMBYism and foreign/corporate investment in housing in a constrained market.
  - throwaway6734 4y ago
    The people making housing a speculative investment aren't the investment firms, they are just along for the ride. It's your average middle to upper middle class homeowners that refuse to allow new housing to be built

by knubie 4y ago

ehnto 4y ago

If you think there is no difference between the food industry and real estate, then I am afraid that is a failing of your own deductions. The issue I forsee is deep pockets cornering specific markets and dictating the price to people who haven't got as much flexibility. Corporate scale slum lords, in other words. It is already happening with private real estate investors. Anyone can ship in and sell potatoes, I can even buy them online. The market forces work because I have so much flexibility. Not everyone can move, nor should they have to move just because money moves in. People live in communities not investment potfolios.

gruez 4y ago
>Anyone can ship in and sell potatoes, I can even buy them online. The market forces work because I have so much flexibility. Not everyone can move, nor should they have to move just because money moves in. But within a given city you have a choice of hundreds, or even thousands of landlords? Any specific building might only be owned by one landlord, but you don't exactly have to move to the other side of a city to get away from that landlord.
- albertsondev 4y ago
  That's no guarantee either, especially with increasing consolidation of land under larger corporate umbrellas. I recently moved away from Columbus after getting on the bad side of an investment group that seems to own nearly all of the publicly-listed apartments in the area within my price bracket, and are still actively buying up more. Said bracket is fairly low, granted, but it's all I can afford on even a decent full-time income, especially with other expenses spiking as of late. Columbus has recently found itself to be the new largest city and center of economic growth in the state, and changed rapidly and radically over the past couple of decades. As a result, it's nowhere near as seasoned and well-established as many other major metros, and the massive influx of new monied interests into the area quickly cornered their respective markets. Moving back to the Cleveland area, which was quite the boom town a century ago but has infamously been in near-perpetual decline ever since (with many residents, like I had, migrating to Columbus), has much healthier competition in the rental market. Perhaps in a few decades as new assets are built and today's ones slosh around the economy, Columbus will have healthier, more diverse competition and see your point ring true. It's certainly healthy in other sectors—one of my favorite things about living there was the great wealth of hole-in-the-wall bodegas, ethnic grocers, restaurants, and food trucks around me that meant even on my last dime I could always try new cuisines—but at least for those of us for whom even a high five-figure income is a distant dream, options are very limited.
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    Hey man, I agree 100% on the point you're making. BUT if you're reading hacker news in your spare time for fun, you can definitely find a remote gig that pays a comfortable six figure income and elevates you to membership in the class of people putting the squeeze on middle America. I don't know you or your situation, so I can't provide any real advice, but I can say with absolute certainty that something is out there for you
    - albertsondev 4y ago
      So I'd like to think. In reality my skills don't exist on paper save for basic helldesk work, and even that's been a crapshoot. Loving the positivity, though. Should probably throw more work into networking and portfolio pieces in between shifts.

wildrhythms 4y ago

Is this supposed to be a snarky retort to the idea that housing should not be owned by a corporation? Food production in America today is already heavily subsidized by the state[1], and despite these subsidies, and despite America's immense food production and exports, there are still people going hungry in every city. [1] https://perc.tamu.edu/PERC-Blog/PERC-Blog/U-S-Farm-Subsidies-A-Prime-Example-of-Crony-Capita https://perc.tamu.edu/PERC-Blog/PERC-Blog/U-S-Farm-Subsidies...

HarryHirsch 4y ago

You are aware that food riots routinely bring down governments, which is why there is government policy that keeps the price of food affordable. (It also brought us consolidation and rural depopulation, but that's the price you pay.) The thing that's really worrying is this - real estate is inherently unproductive. Investment capital ought to be steered into areas that yield technological progress, not into the equivalent of gold stored inside a mattress. That's the real reason that policy that keeps housing affordable is needed. It's not only good social policy but also good technological policy.

spacemadness 4y ago
Housing as a speculative investment is absolute lunacy and entirely unfair to upcoming generations. I agree this is not where investment funds should be going. It’s doing nothing but cause mass financial struggle to younger generations to enrich older generations—but what else is new. The incentives need to change to shut down NIMBYism and foreign/corporate investment in housing in a constrained market.
- throwaway6734 4y ago
  The people making housing a speculative investment aren't the investment firms, they are just along for the ride. It's your average middle to upper middle class homeowners that refuse to allow new housing to be built