6 ms·

I agree there are a lot of protections for tenants. I do no think they're sufficient and go far enough. I say this as someone living in the UK.

scarface74 4y ago
How much further should they go?
- was_a_dev 4y ago
  In a lot of ways. They have in the UK with the latest Renter Reform Bill 2022. https://www.lettingaproperty.com/landlord/blog/renters-reform-bill-2022/ https://www.lettingaproperty.com/landlord/blog/renters-refor... I'd like to see some proposals on how much rent can be raised with respect to local rates. Some European cities have attempted this, but not without issues. And some enforcable time limits on how soon repairs can take - for example a broken boiler.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    And how would that increase inventory and why invest in rental real estate if my return is limited to inflation? In that case, why not just buy bonds?
    - was_a_dev 4y ago
      Increasing inventory occurs by building more housing. It wouldn't be linked to inflation, as the housing and renting market has historically been above inflation. So limiting to market rate would still be beyond inflation. It would be balancing between having housing as a necessity vs a comodity.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        “The market rate” is by definition set by people acting in their own self interest in a competitive market.
    - truckerbill 4y ago
      Exactly. It shouldn't be an investment vehicle, rent on land causes rocketing costs on everything down the chain. Only big monopolies survive. Places that are well governed and cheap to live in are often creative hubs. You might want to argue that monopoly is efficient, but it's only a temporary thing until they have built their moat.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        So who is going to spend millions on multi unit dwellings? Do you think everyone should be forced to buy a home as soon as they move out?
        truckerbill 4y ago
        Tail wagging the dog. Land costs wouldn't be millions if you couldn't turn the thumbscrews on tenants. To be a little less glib, it's easy to imagine other non-profit funding structures such as co-ops and government help (dirty phrase in the U.S. I know). I imagine a lot of the costs of actually building would decrease a lot when remove the incentive for NIMBYish building codes. There would be challenges as you point out, but the overall situation would be much better for all of society.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Yes because government housing has worked so well in the US and condo associations that are owner managed have such a good history.
  - easytiger 4y ago
    This will cause a crash in supply and a follow on rental cost increase.
    - was_a_dev 4y ago
      The solution is to build more housing A simple supply/demand model is useful but limited when the demand is everyone.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        And who is going to foot the bill for building more houses without a profit incentive? Builders of individual homes are building larger houses that are unaffordable to the people who need them the most. The answer is multi unit housing - like those being built by the evil profit seeking capitalists.
        easytiger 4y ago
        His answer will be an all benevolent all generous and arbitrarily infinitely funded government. Infinite housing, for infinite people - the motto of the true altruist - all paid for by persons TBD. The same position held widely in this thread
      - easytiger 4y ago
        If it were that simple would not the mass exodus of landlord owners have reduced prices? There are massive amounts of new supply being built. Single person occupancy growth in the last 20 years has pushed up pressure on stock as has the addition of many millions of persons beyond the national fertility rate. Incredible levels of regulation of which I wager you know nothing make building nearly impossible. I've built many properties, managed many, sold many, bought many. These flippant simplifications don't make sense. Costs to building quality housing to a modern standard are considerable. This the explosion in generic poor quality housing with aesthetics that are vile. If there were real cost pressures we'd see trailer parks everywhere in the UK. But we don't.
- rcpt 4y ago
  How long can you not pay property taxes before the state comes after you? In California owners have a minimum of 5 years for example.

scarface74 4y ago

How much further should they go?

was_a_dev 4y ago
In a lot of ways. They have in the UK with the latest Renter Reform Bill 2022. https://www.lettingaproperty.com/landlord/blog/renters-reform-bill-2022/ https://www.lettingaproperty.com/landlord/blog/renters-refor... I'd like to see some proposals on how much rent can be raised with respect to local rates. Some European cities have attempted this, but not without issues. And some enforcable time limits on how soon repairs can take - for example a broken boiler.
- scarface74 4y ago
  And how would that increase inventory and why invest in rental real estate if my return is limited to inflation? In that case, why not just buy bonds?
  - was_a_dev 4y ago
    Increasing inventory occurs by building more housing. It wouldn't be linked to inflation, as the housing and renting market has historically been above inflation. So limiting to market rate would still be beyond inflation. It would be balancing between having housing as a necessity vs a comodity.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      “The market rate” is by definition set by people acting in their own self interest in a competitive market.
  - truckerbill 4y ago
    Exactly. It shouldn't be an investment vehicle, rent on land causes rocketing costs on everything down the chain. Only big monopolies survive. Places that are well governed and cheap to live in are often creative hubs. You might want to argue that monopoly is efficient, but it's only a temporary thing until they have built their moat.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      So who is going to spend millions on multi unit dwellings? Do you think everyone should be forced to buy a home as soon as they move out?
      - truckerbill 4y ago
        Tail wagging the dog. Land costs wouldn't be millions if you couldn't turn the thumbscrews on tenants. To be a little less glib, it's easy to imagine other non-profit funding structures such as co-ops and government help (dirty phrase in the U.S. I know). I imagine a lot of the costs of actually building would decrease a lot when remove the incentive for NIMBYish building codes. There would be challenges as you point out, but the overall situation would be much better for all of society.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Yes because government housing has worked so well in the US and condo associations that are owner managed have such a good history.
- easytiger 4y ago
  This will cause a crash in supply and a follow on rental cost increase.
  - was_a_dev 4y ago
    The solution is to build more housing A simple supply/demand model is useful but limited when the demand is everyone.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      And who is going to foot the bill for building more houses without a profit incentive? Builders of individual homes are building larger houses that are unaffordable to the people who need them the most. The answer is multi unit housing - like those being built by the evil profit seeking capitalists.
      - easytiger 4y ago
        His answer will be an all benevolent all generous and arbitrarily infinitely funded government. Infinite housing, for infinite people - the motto of the true altruist - all paid for by persons TBD. The same position held widely in this thread
    - easytiger 4y ago
      If it were that simple would not the mass exodus of landlord owners have reduced prices? There are massive amounts of new supply being built. Single person occupancy growth in the last 20 years has pushed up pressure on stock as has the addition of many millions of persons beyond the national fertility rate. Incredible levels of regulation of which I wager you know nothing make building nearly impossible. I've built many properties, managed many, sold many, bought many. These flippant simplifications don't make sense. Costs to building quality housing to a modern standard are considerable. This the explosion in generic poor quality housing with aesthetics that are vile. If there were real cost pressures we'd see trailer parks everywhere in the UK. But we don't.
rcpt 4y ago
How long can you not pay property taxes before the state comes after you? In California owners have a minimum of 5 years for example.