3 ms·

Well that just moves the question to another layer doesn't it? Why do the students and benefactors push this view? Because they are taught thus by professors, c

by im3w1l 4y ago

Well that just moves the question to another layer doesn't it? Why do the students and benefactors push this view? Because they are taught thus by professors, closing the circle? Personally I think the answer is anti-discrimination legislation. To be precise, the chilling effects of it. If someone goes against the "woke" it may not be illegal itself, but it means everything they do will be subject to more scrutiny and they risk being judged more severely for the same misstep. Thus anti-discrimination legislation, I conjecture, gradually select the woke to the top of the elite.

noduerme 4y ago
>> anti-discrimination legislation, I conjecture, gradually select the woke to the top of the elite. ironically, you're making a perfect argument for natural selection in evolutionary studies selecting... people who will eventually deny the existence of natural selection. I wonder if this is also an end stage of a lot of other systems of knowledge.
throwaway894345 4y ago
I’ve heard it described as: anti-discrimination legislation puts the burden of proof on employers to prove they aren’t motivated by discrimination, which is essentially impossible so they instead try to show that they are more committed to “anti-racism” than the median institution, which of course raises the median to the point where exceeding the median requires increasingly ridiculous, performance stuff. Initially I was skeptical of this model because it only explains administrators’ fervor, but as I thought through the knock-on effects, I think it probably does a decent job of explaining faculty and student zeal as well, at least over time.
nequo 4y ago
> Why do the students and benefactors push this view? Because they are taught thus by professors, closing the circle? Your reasoning applied to the 1960s would say that students only opposed the Vietnam War because their professors told them to. You should ascribe more agency to university students. Much more likely that their professors just taught them biology and how to operate lab equipment. Graduate students especially are incentivized to come up with new ways of seeing the world. That’s what writing a dissertation is all about. This is the same mindset carried over from biology to a social issue normally seen as unrelated. Edit: Those who are downvoting without replying, have you been to grad school, or are you just imagining what professors spend their time telling their students?
bizfuz 4y ago
I believe you're right, it does seem to have had a significant effect. Perhaps it's also interesting to imagine the societal changes if law and policy prohibited discrimination based on being disadvantaged by class, wealth and income. We may well edge towards a genuinely more equitable society, rather one that just pays lip service to it based on one's identity. Though it's unlikely to ever happen, given the economic and political system we exist in. It would disadvantage the wealthy and well-connected too much for them to permit it.
gshubert17 4y ago
Author William Deresiewicz some months ago commented on why academics (administrators, professors, and students) push this view in "American Education's new dark age" https://unherd.com/2022/03/american-educations-new-dark-age/ https://unherd.com/2022/03/american-educations-new-dark-age/ , previously discussed in HN with 2 or 3 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30748684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30748684

by im3w1l 4y ago

noduerme 4y ago

>> anti-discrimination legislation, I conjecture, gradually select the woke to the top of the elite. ironically, you're making a perfect argument for natural selection in evolutionary studies selecting... people who will eventually deny the existence of natural selection. I wonder if this is also an end stage of a lot of other systems of knowledge.

throwaway894345 4y ago

I’ve heard it described as: anti-discrimination legislation puts the burden of proof on employers to prove they aren’t motivated by discrimination, which is essentially impossible so they instead try to show that they are more committed to “anti-racism” than the median institution, which of course raises the median to the point where exceeding the median requires increasingly ridiculous, performance stuff. Initially I was skeptical of this model because it only explains administrators’ fervor, but as I thought through the knock-on effects, I think it probably does a decent job of explaining faculty and student zeal as well, at least over time.

nequo 4y ago

> Why do the students and benefactors push this view? Because they are taught thus by professors, closing the circle? Your reasoning applied to the 1960s would say that students only opposed the Vietnam War because their professors told them to. You should ascribe more agency to university students. Much more likely that their professors just taught them biology and how to operate lab equipment. Graduate students especially are incentivized to come up with new ways of seeing the world. That’s what writing a dissertation is all about. This is the same mindset carried over from biology to a social issue normally seen as unrelated. Edit: Those who are downvoting without replying, have you been to grad school, or are you just imagining what professors spend their time telling their students?

bizfuz 4y ago

I believe you're right, it does seem to have had a significant effect. Perhaps it's also interesting to imagine the societal changes if law and policy prohibited discrimination based on being disadvantaged by class, wealth and income. We may well edge towards a genuinely more equitable society, rather one that just pays lip service to it based on one's identity. Though it's unlikely to ever happen, given the economic and political system we exist in. It would disadvantage the wealthy and well-connected too much for them to permit it.

gshubert17 4y ago

Author William Deresiewicz some months ago commented on why academics (administrators, professors, and students) push this view in "American Education's new dark age" https://unherd.com/2022/03/american-educations-new-dark-age/ https://unherd.com/2022/03/american-educations-new-dark-age/ , previously discussed in HN with 2 or 3 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30748684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30748684