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> the majority of men aren't interested in raping people. I'm confused. You're saying they are interested in sex, but not in rape, with their object of attract

> the majority of men aren't interested in raping people. I'm confused. You're saying they are interested in sex, but not in rape, with their object of attraction. Okay. So does the same apply to pedophiles? Is the majority of pedophiles also not interested in raping anyone?

coldtea 4y ago
In pedophiles the "object of attraction" can't ever consent, so merely wanting to have sex with it is already giving in to thoughts of non-consentual sex. Whereas heterosexual men can be interested in sex with women but not in rape (and most are). To map it out: heterosexual men: (a) interested (or acting) on consentual sex with adult women: fine (b) interested (or acting) non-consentual sex with adult women: bad pedos: (a) interested (or acting) non-consentual sex with children: bad It's not symmetrical, as there's no (b) option in the second case. Pedophilia is always about non-consentual sex (that is rape), whether acted upon or not. (In heterosexual men rape is mostly about power. In pedos, it can be about both power and desire, but that desire is still by definition a rape desire, as it can't ever be consentual).
- nhchris 4y ago
  You seem to be confusing desire with what is attainable. If a man can't find a woman that would consent, does that mean he now desires rape, when before he didn't?
  - coldtea 4y ago
    I'm saying the opposite: in the case of children, it's not about "attainable" vs "non attainable", as there's no sense of a "consenting child". The mere pedo desire is desire for a subject unable to consent, that is pretty much equivalent to a rape desire.
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      One can desire something thats not possible. As an analogy, one might desire to be able to jump of a mountain and glide gently to the ground (without any equipment): that doesn’t imply that someone who desires this wishes to die just because humans can’t fly and attempting to fly would be fatal. They desire that not to be the case (even though it is).
noduerme 4y ago
That's a fine point. I guess I presuppose that a sexual interest in children includes an interest in violating another human's sovereignty. (Thus, all pedophilia is to the X-axis right of "violating consent" on the taboo scale on the chart... because it includes violating someone's consent and goes further than that in violating someone who can't consent). But I mean, the mundane fact of wanting to have sex with someone you can't have sex with (for any number of reasons) doesn't mean you're going to rape them. Or woild ever want to rape them. Why? Because you want to have sex with them under the condition that they want to have sex with you. Consensual sex is the kind of sex you crave and want to have. Sex is, obviously, different and better if both parties consent to it, to you, because you're not a rapist. So my contention is that potential rapists are the subset of men who aren't concerned with consent (not those who just desire someone they can't have). And pedophiles are a subset of that. In other words, you're assuming that attraction means someone would rape; I'm saying that an abnormal and antisocial impulse to violate someone's rights is a prerequisite for most rape, not simply attraction.

coldtea 4y ago

In pedophiles the "object of attraction" can't ever consent, so merely wanting to have sex with it is already giving in to thoughts of non-consentual sex. Whereas heterosexual men can be interested in sex with women but not in rape (and most are). To map it out: heterosexual men: (a) interested (or acting) on consentual sex with adult women: fine (b) interested (or acting) non-consentual sex with adult women: bad pedos: (a) interested (or acting) non-consentual sex with children: bad It's not symmetrical, as there's no (b) option in the second case. Pedophilia is always about non-consentual sex (that is rape), whether acted upon or not. (In heterosexual men rape is mostly about power. In pedos, it can be about both power and desire, but that desire is still by definition a rape desire, as it can't ever be consentual).

nhchris 4y ago
You seem to be confusing desire with what is attainable. If a man can't find a woman that would consent, does that mean he now desires rape, when before he didn't?
- coldtea 4y ago
  I'm saying the opposite: in the case of children, it's not about "attainable" vs "non attainable", as there's no sense of a "consenting child". The mere pedo desire is desire for a subject unable to consent, that is pretty much equivalent to a rape desire.
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    One can desire something thats not possible. As an analogy, one might desire to be able to jump of a mountain and glide gently to the ground (without any equipment): that doesn’t imply that someone who desires this wishes to die just because humans can’t fly and attempting to fly would be fatal. They desire that not to be the case (even though it is).

noduerme 4y ago

That's a fine point. I guess I presuppose that a sexual interest in children includes an interest in violating another human's sovereignty. (Thus, all pedophilia is to the X-axis right of "violating consent" on the taboo scale on the chart... because it includes violating someone's consent and goes further than that in violating someone who can't consent). But I mean, the mundane fact of wanting to have sex with someone you can't have sex with (for any number of reasons) doesn't mean you're going to rape them. Or woild ever want to rape them. Why? Because you want to have sex with them under the condition that they want to have sex with you. Consensual sex is the kind of sex you crave and want to have. Sex is, obviously, different and better if both parties consent to it, to you, because you're not a rapist. So my contention is that potential rapists are the subset of men who aren't concerned with consent (not those who just desire someone they can't have). And pedophiles are a subset of that. In other words, you're assuming that attraction means someone would rape; I'm saying that an abnormal and antisocial impulse to violate someone's rights is a prerequisite for most rape, not simply attraction.