6 ms·

As a European, US colleges/universities seem more like boarding schools. Here, no university would think that they have any business interfering with students'

As a European, US colleges/universities seem more like boarding schools. Here, no university would think that they have any business interfering with students' personal lives or anything they do outside a lecture hall, because they are considered adults. More broadly speaking, there seems to be a tendency in current US culture of infantilising young adults. I have repeatedly seen people in their early 20s referred to as "kids" and treated as such. The interesting question is where this comes from, because I don't think this has always been the case, even in the US.

standardUser 4y ago
I wouldn't take that line of reasoning too far. Most kids in the US don't go to college and many that do never live in a dorm. And for most schools with dorms, dorm living is only the first year or two for most students. Maybe it's different at expensive private schools in the US, but the vast majority of Americans never attend those schools.
- jasonhansel 4y ago
  > Most kids in the US don't go to college It's about 63% of high-school grads, including both 2-year and 4-year colleges: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpa https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpa
  - alex_young 4y ago
    From the same source: The overall college enrollment rate for 18- to 24-year-olds was 40 percent in 2020. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpb/college-enrollment-rate https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpb/college-enrol...
    - bbreier 4y ago
      Many students will have graduated by the time they are 24, so it is possible that both statements 1. the majority of American children go to college and 2. 40 percent of 18-24 year olds are enrolled are simultaneously true
      - alex_young 4y ago
        I’m not suggesting they these numbers are in contradiction. I believe they are actually measuring any time enrollment in that period. Otherwise the statistic seems of little value. On time high school graduation is achieved by around 86% of the population. This surely accounts for much of the difference. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=805 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=805
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      Assuming (1) all college students enter at 18 exactly, and (2) all college students are enrolled for exactly the nominal time of their degree program, and (3) the number of students in each year of age is equal and enrollment rates are constant year to year, 63% of students attending college, and 40% enrollment of 18-24 year olds implies 37.8% attend 2 year programs and 25.2% attend 4 year programs. Now, the actual numbers are different than that because the assumptions are all three false, but the point is, that there is nothing inconsistent with the 63% immediate enrollment rate and 40% of students in the 18-24 year age band being currently enrolled.
      - pedrosorio 4y ago
        > 63% of students attending college 63% is the statistic for high-school grads, whereas the person you're replying to is talking about all "18-24 kids", so "all kids graduate high school" is an appendix to assumption 1) you would need to add.
cr1895 4y ago
>As a European, US colleges/universities seem more like boarding schools. Here, no university would think that they have any business interfering with students' personal lives or anything they do outside a lecture hall, because they are considered adults. Seconding this. It was quite a stark difference in university culture and expectations to me between US and NL.
pengaru 4y ago
> More broadly speaking, there seems to be a tendency in current US culture of infantilising young adults. There are obvious incentives for infantilising your population, from capitalism to governance. I find it unsurprising that the US would be exceptionally awful in this regard, when it's so good for business to convince your adults they're helpless children dependent on almighty corporate products/services. But if we look at the global history of religious indoctrination, arguably the epitome and oldest form of infantilising at-scale, there's certainly not a US monopoly on the practice.
- ShredKazoo 4y ago
  >There are obvious incentives for infantilising your population, from capitalism to governance. I find it unsurprising that the US would be exceptionally awful in this regard, when it's so good for business to convince your adults they're helpless children dependent on almighty corporate products/services. This is not how CEOs make decisions. Nor college administrators. Your hypothetical cabal of wealthy elites steepling their fingertips and discussing how best to infantilize the population doesn't exist. Those elites have kids too and they want their kids to be productive members of society. For this theory to have even baseline plausibility, there'd have to be a trend where the kids of the elites went through some sort of non-infantilizing process so they'd be better equipped to rule, but in fact the kids of the elites at places like Yale are even more infantilized.
bbreier 4y ago
I can't think of any times my university cared about anything I did outside of the lecture hall (besides maybe my professors caring about me having done the work?) in the US. What are you referring to?
- MacsHeadroom 4y ago
  Did you live in a dorm and did your dorm room have a stove and/or oven?
  - bbreier 4y ago
    Oh, I did live in a dorm and I guess it didn't. It was one small room for two people, maybe 150sqft or less, we had a communal kitchen.
lostmsu 4y ago
From my sample of 1 young adults no longer fight to be treated like grown-ups. Moreover, don't seem to want that in the first place.
- granshaw 4y ago
  I find this pretty interesting - does it go hand in hand with younger generations seeing no hope for their future, whether it be climate change, being financially stable, having a fulfilling life, finding a partner?
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    I mean, housing markets have ensured that they will live at home for longer periods of time and may never be able to own, or even rent a place by themselves. Same thing goes for starting families, the costs are insane and even if you have kids, you will barely see them in order to just pay for their childcare itself. Good luck if you can't afford health insurance and care, either. The opportunities to do "adult things" are pricing out pretty much everyone except the adult children of high earners or the wealthy.
    - barry-cotter 4y ago
      > I mean, housing markets have ensured that they will live at home for longer periods of time and may never be able to own, or even rent a place by themselves. That’s not an inevitability; it’s a policy choice. If zoning was less restrictive more housing could be built. The people are getting what they want, good and hard.
      - heavyset_go 4y ago
        I agree, but many of the people who are negatively affected by zoning restrictions were either children and not born yet when those restrictions were implemented. I wouldn't say they're getting what they want.
  - skibidibipiti 4y ago
watwut 4y ago
I think that point is overstated. The EU universities provide housing to students too and it is not that massively different, except Greek life. And I swear overwhelming majority of these comics comes from frats who are in power play against university. Every time I dug into specific issues, it turns out being just a bunch of manipulative claims.
- jonp888 4y ago
  But is it not common to force students, as a condition of attending lectures, to live in university housing, and to eat university provided meals? And it is not the case that university housing comes with "advisers" who ensure you are living in an approved way? (And for some bizarre reason you cannot have your own bedroom, you have to share - a last ditch effort to obstruct pre-marital sex?) In the EU anything not associated with studying for a degree is option, and if housing is provided it is just housing without any a special measures to supervise the tenants. At least in Germany, housing, catering and sports facilities are usually in the hands of a seperate body so there is no incentive for the university to try to use their power over students to force their use.
  - tetromino_ 4y ago
    > for some bizarre reason you cannot have your own bedroom The most obvious reason is cost. It's far cheaper to build a dormitory with 1 room per 2-4 residents than with 1 room per 1 resident.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Inability to have own bedroom is quite normal, single bedrooms are expensive. Afaik, mandatory dorm living is rare, but again that is rare in America too. Most American students attend local state schools. Students eating meals made by school incredibly normal and incredibly traditional - it is not some kind of new development. Both in EU and America. There are employees responsible for dorms in Europe too. The rules wary between place to place, so you would need to be more concrete regarding what "rules about how to live" you have in mind. I have seen rules about visitors, noise, time when visitors come etc. In America you have additional rules about alcohol, cause their legal underage is 21, compared with Germany 16. And this is largely legal requirement. There is no equivalence of Greek life where you pledge to live by fraternity or sorority rules, which tend to be quite expansive ... but oddly these are not framed this way . > At least in Germany, housing, catering and sports facilities are usually in the hands of a seperate body so there is no incentive for the university to try to use their power over students to force their use. Afaik, with exception of PE which does exists in EU too, students are not forced to use school sport facilities. They do use them cause they are available and free or cheap. American schools have that bundled together and the prominent expensive ones are basically mini self sufficient cities. So yes, they are under one banner.
mharig 4y ago
You're right, but all the industrialized countries are similar. Too many laws, nanny states. Children have to explore their environment and learn from their experiences to grow up. If you leash them, you steel of them their childhood and adulthood, and because the cage is build of laws that mostly count for all, you steel of the few that could grow up normal their adulthood, too.

standardUser 4y ago

I wouldn't take that line of reasoning too far. Most kids in the US don't go to college and many that do never live in a dorm. And for most schools with dorms, dorm living is only the first year or two for most students. Maybe it's different at expensive private schools in the US, but the vast majority of Americans never attend those schools.

jasonhansel 4y ago
> Most kids in the US don't go to college It's about 63% of high-school grads, including both 2-year and 4-year colleges: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpa https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpa
- alex_young 4y ago
  From the same source: The overall college enrollment rate for 18- to 24-year-olds was 40 percent in 2020. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpb/college-enrollment-rate https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cpb/college-enrol...
  - bbreier 4y ago
    Many students will have graduated by the time they are 24, so it is possible that both statements 1. the majority of American children go to college and 2. 40 percent of 18-24 year olds are enrolled are simultaneously true
    - alex_young 4y ago
      I’m not suggesting they these numbers are in contradiction. I believe they are actually measuring any time enrollment in that period. Otherwise the statistic seems of little value. On time high school graduation is achieved by around 86% of the population. This surely accounts for much of the difference. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=805 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=805
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Assuming (1) all college students enter at 18 exactly, and (2) all college students are enrolled for exactly the nominal time of their degree program, and (3) the number of students in each year of age is equal and enrollment rates are constant year to year, 63% of students attending college, and 40% enrollment of 18-24 year olds implies 37.8% attend 2 year programs and 25.2% attend 4 year programs. Now, the actual numbers are different than that because the assumptions are all three false, but the point is, that there is nothing inconsistent with the 63% immediate enrollment rate and 40% of students in the 18-24 year age band being currently enrolled.
    - pedrosorio 4y ago
      > 63% of students attending college 63% is the statistic for high-school grads, whereas the person you're replying to is talking about all "18-24 kids", so "all kids graduate high school" is an appendix to assumption 1) you would need to add.

cr1895 4y ago

>As a European, US colleges/universities seem more like boarding schools. Here, no university would think that they have any business interfering with students' personal lives or anything they do outside a lecture hall, because they are considered adults. Seconding this. It was quite a stark difference in university culture and expectations to me between US and NL.

pengaru 4y ago

> More broadly speaking, there seems to be a tendency in current US culture of infantilising young adults. There are obvious incentives for infantilising your population, from capitalism to governance. I find it unsurprising that the US would be exceptionally awful in this regard, when it's so good for business to convince your adults they're helpless children dependent on almighty corporate products/services. But if we look at the global history of religious indoctrination, arguably the epitome and oldest form of infantilising at-scale, there's certainly not a US monopoly on the practice.

ShredKazoo 4y ago
>There are obvious incentives for infantilising your population, from capitalism to governance. I find it unsurprising that the US would be exceptionally awful in this regard, when it's so good for business to convince your adults they're helpless children dependent on almighty corporate products/services. This is not how CEOs make decisions. Nor college administrators. Your hypothetical cabal of wealthy elites steepling their fingertips and discussing how best to infantilize the population doesn't exist. Those elites have kids too and they want their kids to be productive members of society. For this theory to have even baseline plausibility, there'd have to be a trend where the kids of the elites went through some sort of non-infantilizing process so they'd be better equipped to rule, but in fact the kids of the elites at places like Yale are even more infantilized.

bbreier 4y ago

I can't think of any times my university cared about anything I did outside of the lecture hall (besides maybe my professors caring about me having done the work?) in the US. What are you referring to?

MacsHeadroom 4y ago
Did you live in a dorm and did your dorm room have a stove and/or oven?
- bbreier 4y ago
  Oh, I did live in a dorm and I guess it didn't. It was one small room for two people, maybe 150sqft or less, we had a communal kitchen.

lostmsu 4y ago

From my sample of 1 young adults no longer fight to be treated like grown-ups. Moreover, don't seem to want that in the first place.

granshaw 4y ago
I find this pretty interesting - does it go hand in hand with younger generations seeing no hope for their future, whether it be climate change, being financially stable, having a fulfilling life, finding a partner?
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  I mean, housing markets have ensured that they will live at home for longer periods of time and may never be able to own, or even rent a place by themselves. Same thing goes for starting families, the costs are insane and even if you have kids, you will barely see them in order to just pay for their childcare itself. Good luck if you can't afford health insurance and care, either. The opportunities to do "adult things" are pricing out pretty much everyone except the adult children of high earners or the wealthy.
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    > I mean, housing markets have ensured that they will live at home for longer periods of time and may never be able to own, or even rent a place by themselves. That’s not an inevitability; it’s a policy choice. If zoning was less restrictive more housing could be built. The people are getting what they want, good and hard.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      I agree, but many of the people who are negatively affected by zoning restrictions were either children and not born yet when those restrictions were implemented. I wouldn't say they're getting what they want.
- skibidibipiti 4y ago

watwut 4y ago

I think that point is overstated. The EU universities provide housing to students too and it is not that massively different, except Greek life. And I swear overwhelming majority of these comics comes from frats who are in power play against university. Every time I dug into specific issues, it turns out being just a bunch of manipulative claims.

jonp888 4y ago
But is it not common to force students, as a condition of attending lectures, to live in university housing, and to eat university provided meals? And it is not the case that university housing comes with "advisers" who ensure you are living in an approved way? (And for some bizarre reason you cannot have your own bedroom, you have to share - a last ditch effort to obstruct pre-marital sex?) In the EU anything not associated with studying for a degree is option, and if housing is provided it is just housing without any a special measures to supervise the tenants. At least in Germany, housing, catering and sports facilities are usually in the hands of a seperate body so there is no incentive for the university to try to use their power over students to force their use.
- tetromino_ 4y ago
  > for some bizarre reason you cannot have your own bedroom The most obvious reason is cost. It's far cheaper to build a dormitory with 1 room per 2-4 residents than with 1 room per 1 resident.
- watwut 4y ago
  Inability to have own bedroom is quite normal, single bedrooms are expensive. Afaik, mandatory dorm living is rare, but again that is rare in America too. Most American students attend local state schools. Students eating meals made by school incredibly normal and incredibly traditional - it is not some kind of new development. Both in EU and America. There are employees responsible for dorms in Europe too. The rules wary between place to place, so you would need to be more concrete regarding what "rules about how to live" you have in mind. I have seen rules about visitors, noise, time when visitors come etc. In America you have additional rules about alcohol, cause their legal underage is 21, compared with Germany 16. And this is largely legal requirement. There is no equivalence of Greek life where you pledge to live by fraternity or sorority rules, which tend to be quite expansive ... but oddly these are not framed this way . > At least in Germany, housing, catering and sports facilities are usually in the hands of a seperate body so there is no incentive for the university to try to use their power over students to force their use. Afaik, with exception of PE which does exists in EU too, students are not forced to use school sport facilities. They do use them cause they are available and free or cheap. American schools have that bundled together and the prominent expensive ones are basically mini self sufficient cities. So yes, they are under one banner.

mharig 4y ago

You're right, but all the industrialized countries are similar. Too many laws, nanny states. Children have to explore their environment and learn from their experiences to grow up. If you leash them, you steel of them their childhood and adulthood, and because the cage is build of laws that mostly count for all, you steel of the few that could grow up normal their adulthood, too.