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> The actual big problem with Wayland is the unwillingless of the core developers to take advice, but that was a problem back when they were the X11 core develo

by saurik 4y ago

> The actual big problem with Wayland is the unwillingless of the core developers to take advice, but that was a problem back when they were the X11 core developers, and I don't see it changing. Is there a solution to this? Any alternative at all? Like, I agree with this problem and it makes me almost irrationally angry that fundamental software on what should be a flexible and open platform are built by people who are so hostile to basic settings or extensible functionality that they are even more egotistical than Apple engineers :/.

toast0 4y ago
The fundamental problem is this kind of stuff is hard work and to a first approximation, nobody wants to do it. So if the X11 core developers and the Wayland developers (who are generally the same people) want to do it their way, and their way is better than nothing, we kind of have to deal with their way, don't we? I mean, I can run X11 as long as possible, but sooner or later, I'm probably going to have to deal with Wayland. Especially since I'm also not willing to consider Mac because I've suffered enough, and Windows 11 looks like it might piss me off enough to go back to an opensource desktop. Alternatives probably look like borrowing from other projects that have managed to wrangle things. Android doesn't use X or Wayland, afaik, but I don't know that it makes a good base for a desktop. I believe ChromeOS uses X11 (EDIT: I'm probably wrong, looks like they use Wayland) and their own window management etc, that doesn't help if you don't like X11/Wayland. Otherwise, maybe it's possible to build on top of Windows apis. There's NDISWrapper, maybe someome crazy could build something to use GPU drivers for Windows, and run wine or something. If you look around, you'll see articles about how the portable executable file format for Linux GUIs is windows PE, and it sort of makes sense, a little. That'd be a big transition in expectations though.

by saurik 4y ago

toast0 4y ago

The fundamental problem is this kind of stuff is hard work and to a first approximation, nobody wants to do it. So if the X11 core developers and the Wayland developers (who are generally the same people) want to do it their way, and their way is better than nothing, we kind of have to deal with their way, don't we? I mean, I can run X11 as long as possible, but sooner or later, I'm probably going to have to deal with Wayland. Especially since I'm also not willing to consider Mac because I've suffered enough, and Windows 11 looks like it might piss me off enough to go back to an opensource desktop. Alternatives probably look like borrowing from other projects that have managed to wrangle things. Android doesn't use X or Wayland, afaik, but I don't know that it makes a good base for a desktop. I believe ChromeOS uses X11 (EDIT: I'm probably wrong, looks like they use Wayland) and their own window management etc, that doesn't help if you don't like X11/Wayland. Otherwise, maybe it's possible to build on top of Windows apis. There's NDISWrapper, maybe someome crazy could build something to use GPU drivers for Windows, and run wine or something. If you look around, you'll see articles about how the portable executable file format for Linux GUIs is windows PE, and it sort of makes sense, a little. That'd be a big transition in expectations though.