3 ms·

> but wanted to adjust the terms in the non-compete section of their contract (something you hear suggested a lot by people here on HN). You probably hear this

by ekidd 4y ago

> but wanted to adjust the terms in the non-compete section of their contract (something you hear suggested a lot by people here on HN). You probably hear this a lot on HN because: - In the US, programmer contracts are often negotiable, within reasonable limits. - Default programmer contracts are often shockingly bad for the employee. And no competent lawyer would ever advise you to sign some of the ones I've seen. I've successfully negotiated almost every contract I've signed since I was an intern, and I've been doing this for over two decades. In my experience, very few employers have ever read their contracts. Several years ago, when I renegotiated a contract, the leadership team said, "Wow, that really is ridiculous and unfair," and actually wound up fixing their standard contract.

pjdesno 4y ago
I had several f'ed up contracts in the 90s-2000s, and tried to negotiate each of them. In a fairly good position several times, as they had forgotten to have me sign the specific contract (non-compete, outside of CA) when they hired me. I got fuck all, as well. In 2 of 3 cases I think it was the VC who set the contract terms - I assume it was easier to lose 10% of their engineering team than to renegotiate, and I wasn't willing to play chicken and see if they fired me.
- ekidd 4y ago
  > I wasn't willing to play chicken and see if they fired me. That makes negotiation harder. There a number of books from the Harvard Negotiation Project which offer roughly the following advice: - Make sure your plan B is good enough that walking is no big deal. - Focus on finding a fair solution, even if you need to keep pulling the discussion back to that ideal. Basically, 75% of your negotiation effort should be spent improving your plan B. You want to be mostly saying things like, "I would love to work for you, but a 5 year world-wide, industry-wide non-compete is simply not fair. I knew a guy who basically got locked into indentured servitude when a private equity firm abused a similar clause. I'll tell you what. You have employees in California, right? California law strikes a pretty fair balance on this issue. What contract language do you use there?" And if they say, "No, I don't think we can do that," you say, "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that! I was looking forward to solving your challenges with _____, but it sounds like we can't find mutually agreeable terms. No harm, no foul. I wish you the best of luck." Then you walk out the door and make the phone call to move ahead with plan B or C.

by ekidd 4y ago

pjdesno 4y ago

I had several f'ed up contracts in the 90s-2000s, and tried to negotiate each of them. In a fairly good position several times, as they had forgotten to have me sign the specific contract (non-compete, outside of CA) when they hired me. I got fuck all, as well. In 2 of 3 cases I think it was the VC who set the contract terms - I assume it was easier to lose 10% of their engineering team than to renegotiate, and I wasn't willing to play chicken and see if they fired me.

ekidd 4y ago
> I wasn't willing to play chicken and see if they fired me. That makes negotiation harder. There a number of books from the Harvard Negotiation Project which offer roughly the following advice: - Make sure your plan B is good enough that walking is no big deal. - Focus on finding a fair solution, even if you need to keep pulling the discussion back to that ideal. Basically, 75% of your negotiation effort should be spent improving your plan B. You want to be mostly saying things like, "I would love to work for you, but a 5 year world-wide, industry-wide non-compete is simply not fair. I knew a guy who basically got locked into indentured servitude when a private equity firm abused a similar clause. I'll tell you what. You have employees in California, right? California law strikes a pretty fair balance on this issue. What contract language do you use there?" And if they say, "No, I don't think we can do that," you say, "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that! I was looking forward to solving your challenges with _____, but it sounds like we can't find mutually agreeable terms. No harm, no foul. I wish you the best of luck." Then you walk out the door and make the phone call to move ahead with plan B or C.