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Quite interesting. I'm not left with any strong impression of what Kennan actually would have done had he attained any power. "Inchoate yearnings" seems to best

Quite interesting. I'm not left with any strong impression of what Kennan actually would have done had he attained any power. "Inchoate yearnings" seems to best describe his thoughts. Creating an unelected council of wise men because the people aren't capable of governing themselves -- if that was his best idea, you can see why he left the government and was continuously unhappy about everything, even being proven right in 1989. As for diplomacy and negotiating, JFK said, “Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate." I think that sums it up pretty well.

pphysch 4y ago
> Creating an unelected council of wise men because the people aren't capable of governing themselves -- if that was his best idea, you can see why he left the government Bilderberg Group, Atlantic Council, World Economic Forum, and Trilateral Commission all popped up within a decade of him leaving government. While he didn't implement "his" idea, the next generation certainly did.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  and your point is... ? We can go back to Plato for an earlier expression of that idea. Those groups you cited all have unofficial power, and they're all intensely controversial.
  - pphysch 4y ago
    Yeah, but only because giving them official power would be horrible optics in America particularly. Those organizations are de facto where Western policy has been shaped for 50+ years.
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      That's a matter of opinion, I'm afraid. We may have hit the limits of useful discussion here. It's like saying "Big business controls our foreign policy." Or maybe, "International Zionism controls our foreign policy." You're welcome to think that, but I'm not going to engage.
      - samhyde69 4y ago
        [dead]
      - propagandist 4y ago
        > Or maybe, "International Zionism controls our foreign policy." You're welcome to think that, but I'm not going to engage. That's completely uncalled for and makes it look like you are arguing in bad faith.
        AlbertCory 4y ago
        Sorry, I don't think so. "Unelected cabals operating behind the scenes" -- that's an age-old trope. And there are certainly HN'ers who'd subscribe to that. Just try mentioning the West Bank and watch them pop up.
        pphysch 4y ago
        > "Unelected cabals operating behind the scenes" -- that's an age-old trope I think you could do with fewer condescending comments and more study of the history and mechanics of democracy and mass psychology. Bernays is a decent starting point.
- hackandthink 4y ago
  In Germany at least foreign policy is democratically controlled. But there's a lot of atlanticist think tank money around which influences politicians and journalists. E.g.: I'm reading Sueddeutsche Zeitung which participates at "Munich Security Conference". So Sueddeutsche Zeitung (Foreign Policy Redaction) often reads like a Nato pamphlet. (actually there are some thoughtful people in Feuilleton)
  - hackandthink 4y ago
    This is the most predictable guy: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Kornelius https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Kornelius
    - pphysch 4y ago
      Baerbock too. Before she was selected for government, an Atlantic Council member said her policy opinions "are in lockstep with" NATO. How convenient.

pphysch 4y ago

> Creating an unelected council of wise men because the people aren't capable of governing themselves -- if that was his best idea, you can see why he left the government Bilderberg Group, Atlantic Council, World Economic Forum, and Trilateral Commission all popped up within a decade of him leaving government. While he didn't implement "his" idea, the next generation certainly did.

AlbertCory 4y ago
and your point is... ? We can go back to Plato for an earlier expression of that idea. Those groups you cited all have unofficial power, and they're all intensely controversial.
- pphysch 4y ago
  Yeah, but only because giving them official power would be horrible optics in America particularly. Those organizations are de facto where Western policy has been shaped for 50+ years.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    That's a matter of opinion, I'm afraid. We may have hit the limits of useful discussion here. It's like saying "Big business controls our foreign policy." Or maybe, "International Zionism controls our foreign policy." You're welcome to think that, but I'm not going to engage.
    - samhyde69 4y ago
      [dead]
    - propagandist 4y ago
      > Or maybe, "International Zionism controls our foreign policy." You're welcome to think that, but I'm not going to engage. That's completely uncalled for and makes it look like you are arguing in bad faith.
      - AlbertCory 4y ago
        Sorry, I don't think so. "Unelected cabals operating behind the scenes" -- that's an age-old trope. And there are certainly HN'ers who'd subscribe to that. Just try mentioning the West Bank and watch them pop up.
        pphysch 4y ago
        > "Unelected cabals operating behind the scenes" -- that's an age-old trope I think you could do with fewer condescending comments and more study of the history and mechanics of democracy and mass psychology. Bernays is a decent starting point.
hackandthink 4y ago
In Germany at least foreign policy is democratically controlled. But there's a lot of atlanticist think tank money around which influences politicians and journalists. E.g.: I'm reading Sueddeutsche Zeitung which participates at "Munich Security Conference". So Sueddeutsche Zeitung (Foreign Policy Redaction) often reads like a Nato pamphlet. (actually there are some thoughtful people in Feuilleton)
- hackandthink 4y ago
  This is the most predictable guy: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Kornelius https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Kornelius
  - pphysch 4y ago
    Baerbock too. Before she was selected for government, an Atlantic Council member said her policy opinions "are in lockstep with" NATO. How convenient.