3 ms·

> But that doesn't seem so dystopian. Everyone is a publisher now. When you think it through, it does seem dystopian. Imagine that e-ink matures, and paper is

> But that doesn't seem so dystopian. Everyone is a publisher now. When you think it through, it does seem dystopian. Imagine that e-ink matures, and paper isn't that useful any more. That we no longer purchase dead-tree copies of our books, magazines, and so on. I think that can happen. I read right now a novel on my electronic reader, even though I have a dead-tree copy, because my reader is lighter and slimmer than my book. Now, how do I lend you a book for which I have no dead-tree copy? I can't give you such a piece of dead-tree (and naturally lose it for myself). All I can do is make a copy and give it to you. And then I'm a publisher. And then what I'm doing is forbidden. And then I can't even lend you my book. (One could imagine laws/DRM that would erase the copy I own if I ever give another copy to someone else. However, I don't think the IP Lords would want even that. They'd say it harms their revenue.) But that's not dystopian enough. True dystopia is when the means of enforcing it kick in: the only know way right now is a "total surveillance" regime, where free software itself is forbidden.

llambda 15y ago
> Now, how do I lend you a book for which I have no dead-tree copy? I can't give you such a piece of dead-tree (and naturally lose it for myself). Why can't you lend it to me on the good faith I'll return to it you when I'm done? Edit: Aha, I misread your comment! I think because in the proceeding paragraph you mention the case of having a dead-tree book but preferring e-ink. Of course, if you don't have it you can't lend it (assuming DRM prevents you).
dextorious 15y ago
""""Now, how do I lend you a book for which I have no dead-tree copy? I can't give you such a piece of dead-tree (and naturally lose it for myself). All I can do is make a copy and give it to you. And then I'm a publisher. And then what I'm doing is forbidden. And then I can't even lend you my book.""" So the "dystopia" is the artificial disability to lend books? How about the counter-balance that millions of books are now available everywhere with an internet connection, instantly obtainable, with no real trees sacrificed and much cheaper than print editions (that one could get better, though). And you can even get 1-2 chapters for free to check if you want to buy the book (in Amazon kindle at least). Plus, everyone can become his own publisher for his own work (no copyright problem in this case) with easy worldwide distribution and no mediators. So, yeah, you can't lend your book (almost, see below). But you can lend your ebook reader to others in the family. And how common is dead-tree book lending anyway? How about your friend buys a digital copy for himself (possibly after downloading the free sample chapters?). """(One could imagine laws/DRM that would erase the copy I own if I ever give another copy to someone else. However, I don't think the IP Lords would want even that. They'd say it harms their revenue.)""" One doesn't have to imagine. iTunes store allows you to share your songs (haven't checked about books) with 5 other accounts. And Kindle permits you to lend books to others for 14 days: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200549320 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2...
- dodedo 15y ago
  "So the 'dystopia' is the artificial disability to lend books?" It is the inability to communicate freely.
- loup-vaillant 15y ago
  > So the "dystopia" is the artificial disability to lend books? No, that's not bad enough. But it sure leads to a dystopia. Quoting myself: "True dystopia is when the means of enforcing [copyright] kick in: the only know way right now is a "total surveillance" regime, where free software itself is forbidden." By the way, it still applies even when Big IP do permit you to share with a few friends.
billpatrianakos 15y ago
Didnt the Kindle and Nook come with some way of sharing books with friends? I also seem to remember that the Xune let you share music too. You have to admit that going digital introduces problems that aren't clear cut. If you were to reproduce a physical copy of a book and give it out en masse for either free or a fee you'd be called a bootlegger. But when that same book or movie or whatever is a digital copy then the difference between lending out a copy innocently and distribution which violates copyright gets blurred. Lending something out used to mean one copy gets passed between people. Now it means there's a copy for each person you want to share with. I think we're just going through some growing pains. I really don't see how anyone can say any one side is right. Theyre just competing interests that we will hopefully find a happy middle ground for soon.
- chc 15y ago
  They come with rather neutered implementations of lending that might as well not be there at all since IIRC publishers can and do simply disable the feature in the permissions for their books. Ditto for the feature on the Kindle that reads a book aloud (which was never put into the Nook since the publishers had realized they hated the feature by the time the Nook came out).

llambda 15y ago

> Now, how do I lend you a book for which I have no dead-tree copy? I can't give you such a piece of dead-tree (and naturally lose it for myself). Why can't you lend it to me on the good faith I'll return to it you when I'm done? Edit: Aha, I misread your comment! I think because in the proceeding paragraph you mention the case of having a dead-tree book but preferring e-ink. Of course, if you don't have it you can't lend it (assuming DRM prevents you).

dextorious 15y ago

""""Now, how do I lend you a book for which I have no dead-tree copy? I can't give you such a piece of dead-tree (and naturally lose it for myself). All I can do is make a copy and give it to you. And then I'm a publisher. And then what I'm doing is forbidden. And then I can't even lend you my book.""" So the "dystopia" is the artificial disability to lend books? How about the counter-balance that millions of books are now available everywhere with an internet connection, instantly obtainable, with no real trees sacrificed and much cheaper than print editions (that one could get better, though). And you can even get 1-2 chapters for free to check if you want to buy the book (in Amazon kindle at least). Plus, everyone can become his own publisher for his own work (no copyright problem in this case) with easy worldwide distribution and no mediators. So, yeah, you can't lend your book (almost, see below). But you can lend your ebook reader to others in the family. And how common is dead-tree book lending anyway? How about your friend buys a digital copy for himself (possibly after downloading the free sample chapters?). """(One could imagine laws/DRM that would erase the copy I own if I ever give another copy to someone else. However, I don't think the IP Lords would want even that. They'd say it harms their revenue.)""" One doesn't have to imagine. iTunes store allows you to share your songs (haven't checked about books) with 5 other accounts. And Kindle permits you to lend books to others for 14 days: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200549320 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2...

dodedo 15y ago
"So the 'dystopia' is the artificial disability to lend books?" It is the inability to communicate freely.
loup-vaillant 15y ago
> So the "dystopia" is the artificial disability to lend books? No, that's not bad enough. But it sure leads to a dystopia. Quoting myself: "True dystopia is when the means of enforcing [copyright] kick in: the only know way right now is a "total surveillance" regime, where free software itself is forbidden." By the way, it still applies even when Big IP do permit you to share with a few friends.

billpatrianakos 15y ago

Didnt the Kindle and Nook come with some way of sharing books with friends? I also seem to remember that the Xune let you share music too. You have to admit that going digital introduces problems that aren't clear cut. If you were to reproduce a physical copy of a book and give it out en masse for either free or a fee you'd be called a bootlegger. But when that same book or movie or whatever is a digital copy then the difference between lending out a copy innocently and distribution which violates copyright gets blurred. Lending something out used to mean one copy gets passed between people. Now it means there's a copy for each person you want to share with. I think we're just going through some growing pains. I really don't see how anyone can say any one side is right. Theyre just competing interests that we will hopefully find a happy middle ground for soon.

chc 15y ago
They come with rather neutered implementations of lending that might as well not be there at all since IIRC publishers can and do simply disable the feature in the permissions for their books. Ditto for the feature on the Kindle that reads a book aloud (which was never put into the Nook since the publishers had realized they hated the feature by the time the Nook came out).