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You are making the assumption that there's some formal deal for $250k total. I don't think that was ever the case. My guess is that in these negotiations, you t

You are making the assumption that there's some formal deal for $250k total. I don't think that was ever the case. My guess is that in these negotiations, you tell the buyer that you sell in packs of 6 for say $41/case. They run their numbers and come back to you saying "okay, we have all the info we need and we are going to take 6000 units and the formal POs will come over the next few weeks."

lisper 4y ago
> You are making the assumption that there's some formal deal for $250k total. No, I'm not. I'm not assuming anything. Here is what they wrote: "In April 2022, a representative from this distributor reached out to us to see if we would be interested in participating in an online specialty coffee program for a major nationwide retailer. The opening order would be approximately 6,000 “units”." At this point there are only two possibilities. 1. They asked how much they were going to be paid for these 6000 "units" and on what terms. 2. They didn't. If they asked, the answer should have immediately clued them in that they were making a false assumption that a unit was a bag. And if they didn't, well, that's still on them.
- cortesoft 4y ago
  You are assuming they knew the $250k amount at that point. When they made the deal for 6000 units, they didn't know the total was going to be $250k. They didn't know the total was $250k until they learned it was for 6000 cases later.
  - lisper 4y ago
    > You are assuming they knew the $250k amount at that point. No, I'm saying they should have asked.
    - teawrecks 4y ago
      You're moving your goalpost. Up above you said, > They thought they had a deal to sell 6000 "units" for $250,000. Now you're agreeing that they didn't necessarily have that deal up front, and that they should have asked for it.
      - lisper 4y ago
        Yes, that's what I thought at the time. But then I re-read the article and realized that it was intentionally misleading. It is now clear to me that not only are they idiots, they are also dishonest. The summary of the situation, in their words, is: "TLDR: We got grifted by a multi-billion dollar distributor for $250,000." That is a lie. What actually happened is that a broker came to them with an offer which they accepted despite not achieving clarity on exactly what the offer actually was. They thought they were signing up for 6000 bags when in fact they were signing up for six times as many because they did not understand a term of art in their industry. This was their first mistake. Then, when they realized their mistake, they decided to proceed and invest the necessary capital to meet the order without fully assessing the potential risks. That was their second mistake. They could have pulled the plug then, but they chose not to. Then it all fell through. That's tough, I feel sorry for them, but they are not the victims here. Deals falling through is a Thing That Happens in business. That's why there are contracts and insurance, and why finance and risk management is a thing. At every step in the process, their situation was 100% their fault. No one lied to them. No one put a gun to their head and forced them to do something they didn't want to do. No one did anything that was not part of standard business practice. The situation is entirely the result of their naivete, failure to do their due diligence, failure to properly assess risks, and unbelievably poor decision making in the face of newly discovered information. And now they are digging themselves in even deeper by accusing their distributor of grifting them. No, sorry, they were not grifted. They were just stupid, and rather than admit it and learn from it, they are trying to shift the blame to their distributor and make this sound like a David-v-Goliath story. It isn't. It's a company-being-stupid-failing-to-own-up-to-it story.
      - onphonenow 4y ago
        Are you saying they agreed to a deal without even knowing the price of a ‘unit’?? They truly are idiots then
  - nikanj 4y ago
    They must have had at least some discussion on price per unit. Maybe not about the total, but how was this not caught when they sent the first invoice? At six bags per case, either they sent 1/6 of the ordered amount of coffee, or they got paid 1/6 of the expected money. This smells like a slimy growth hacking strategy.
  - 55555 4y ago
    No, but they were 100% given a price for the 6000 units. Nobody is shipping 6000 units to anyone unless they know and like the amount they are being paid.
  - onphonenow 4y ago
    Who cares, didn’t they know how much they’d be paid per ‘unit’?? If they didn’t ask even that they are idiots - that’s the core part of the deal, 1 unit or 6,000
nkrisc 4y ago
Even so, you told them you sell in packs of 6. That’s a unit then. I sympathize with the producers but this really seems like their error.
Thorentis 4y ago
Why would you go into debt for $216k, if you didn't know you were going to make at least that much back? From the article, they said they knew that $250k was coming so it would be worth it. This is a major error on their part, to think they had really found somebody willing to pay $41/bag.
- vitaflo 4y ago
  Even if they spent $216k to make $250k it had to occur to them that it wasn't really worth it. They talked about them working 3 shifts, 12-16 hours every day for 6 weeks, bringing in extra people to help out to get them over the hump. They did all this so they could have future orders like this from this buyer. All for $34k after expenses. All that effort to get them over the hump and they're basically making $10hr at best. Future orders like this wouldn't be sustainable because you can't pay labor that little. They seem like a lifestyle business that got in over their head.

lisper 4y ago

> You are making the assumption that there's some formal deal for $250k total. No, I'm not. I'm not assuming anything. Here is what they wrote: "In April 2022, a representative from this distributor reached out to us to see if we would be interested in participating in an online specialty coffee program for a major nationwide retailer. The opening order would be approximately 6,000 “units”." At this point there are only two possibilities. 1. They asked how much they were going to be paid for these 6000 "units" and on what terms. 2. They didn't. If they asked, the answer should have immediately clued them in that they were making a false assumption that a unit was a bag. And if they didn't, well, that's still on them.

cortesoft 4y ago
You are assuming they knew the $250k amount at that point. When they made the deal for 6000 units, they didn't know the total was going to be $250k. They didn't know the total was $250k until they learned it was for 6000 cases later.
- lisper 4y ago
  > You are assuming they knew the $250k amount at that point. No, I'm saying they should have asked.
  - teawrecks 4y ago
    You're moving your goalpost. Up above you said, > They thought they had a deal to sell 6000 "units" for $250,000. Now you're agreeing that they didn't necessarily have that deal up front, and that they should have asked for it.
    - lisper 4y ago
      Yes, that's what I thought at the time. But then I re-read the article and realized that it was intentionally misleading. It is now clear to me that not only are they idiots, they are also dishonest. The summary of the situation, in their words, is: "TLDR: We got grifted by a multi-billion dollar distributor for $250,000." That is a lie. What actually happened is that a broker came to them with an offer which they accepted despite not achieving clarity on exactly what the offer actually was. They thought they were signing up for 6000 bags when in fact they were signing up for six times as many because they did not understand a term of art in their industry. This was their first mistake. Then, when they realized their mistake, they decided to proceed and invest the necessary capital to meet the order without fully assessing the potential risks. That was their second mistake. They could have pulled the plug then, but they chose not to. Then it all fell through. That's tough, I feel sorry for them, but they are not the victims here. Deals falling through is a Thing That Happens in business. That's why there are contracts and insurance, and why finance and risk management is a thing. At every step in the process, their situation was 100% their fault. No one lied to them. No one put a gun to their head and forced them to do something they didn't want to do. No one did anything that was not part of standard business practice. The situation is entirely the result of their naivete, failure to do their due diligence, failure to properly assess risks, and unbelievably poor decision making in the face of newly discovered information. And now they are digging themselves in even deeper by accusing their distributor of grifting them. No, sorry, they were not grifted. They were just stupid, and rather than admit it and learn from it, they are trying to shift the blame to their distributor and make this sound like a David-v-Goliath story. It isn't. It's a company-being-stupid-failing-to-own-up-to-it story.
    - onphonenow 4y ago
      Are you saying they agreed to a deal without even knowing the price of a ‘unit’?? They truly are idiots then
- nikanj 4y ago
  They must have had at least some discussion on price per unit. Maybe not about the total, but how was this not caught when they sent the first invoice? At six bags per case, either they sent 1/6 of the ordered amount of coffee, or they got paid 1/6 of the expected money. This smells like a slimy growth hacking strategy.
- 55555 4y ago
  No, but they were 100% given a price for the 6000 units. Nobody is shipping 6000 units to anyone unless they know and like the amount they are being paid.
- onphonenow 4y ago
  Who cares, didn’t they know how much they’d be paid per ‘unit’?? If they didn’t ask even that they are idiots - that’s the core part of the deal, 1 unit or 6,000

nkrisc 4y ago

Even so, you told them you sell in packs of 6. That’s a unit then. I sympathize with the producers but this really seems like their error.

Thorentis 4y ago

Why would you go into debt for $216k, if you didn't know you were going to make at least that much back? From the article, they said they knew that $250k was coming so it would be worth it. This is a major error on their part, to think they had really found somebody willing to pay $41/bag.

vitaflo 4y ago
Even if they spent $216k to make $250k it had to occur to them that it wasn't really worth it. They talked about them working 3 shifts, 12-16 hours every day for 6 weeks, bringing in extra people to help out to get them over the hump. They did all this so they could have future orders like this from this buyer. All for $34k after expenses. All that effort to get them over the hump and they're basically making $10hr at best. Future orders like this wouldn't be sustainable because you can't pay labor that little. They seem like a lifestyle business that got in over their head.