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> Amazon has started selling items that aren't returnable and I wish I could opt out of it Is that legal? I would not buy something where the seller can liter

> Amazon has started selling items that aren't returnable and I wish I could opt out of it Is that legal? I would not buy something where the seller can literally ship junk and legally you have no recourse.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Caveat Emptor. AFAIK it's legal. Might be courteous to disclose "no returns accepted" on such listings, but I don't think it's mandatory, at least not everywhere. Buy with a credit card that offers warranty coverage on purchased items.
- archontes 4y ago
  It's reasonable they could do a chargeback on the basis of violation of implied warranty of fitness. Edit: it's probably a violation of implied warranty of merchantability.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Even brick and mortar stores definitely will sell special items (discontinued items, returned items, etc.) on an all sales final basis sometimes.
wahnfrieden 4y ago
in the US yeah. it takes coordinated pressure from the working class to get reasonable-seeming laws like that passed. when we leave our rights to corporate charity, this is what we're left with
- drstewart 4y ago
  You mean Japan, not the US. https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/zt9ra1/why_is_it_not_possible_to_return_a_product/ https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/zt9ra1/why_is_it...
  - layer8 4y ago
    That’s in a physical store, which aren’t obligated to accept returns in Europe either (though they often do). Accepting returns is only mandatory for online sales, because there the buyer can’t physically evaluate the product like they can in a physical store.
unity1001 4y ago
> Is that legal? Not in Europe.
- into_infinity 4y ago
  I think we're conflating two things. A seller has to refund / replace / repair any merchandise that is defective or not as advertised, and that's true in the US and in the EU. A seller does not necessarily have to accept returns if you changed your mind, found the item cheaper somewhere else, or just don't like it. Pretty sure that's also the case in the EU.
  - pocketarc 4y ago
    That is not the case at least in the UK; you have 14 days after receiving an item, for any online purchase you make, to return it, even if you just changed your mind. Consumer protection regulations are genuinely so nice for feeling at ease with buying stuff online.
  - Macha 4y ago
    It is not the case in the EU, the legal term is "cooling off period". You get 14 days to change your mind for physical products ordered online
  - luisrudge 4y ago
    In Brazil you have 7 days to return any online order, no questions asked. You can use the product and return if you don’t like it, provided the product is not scratched etc. Companies might try to bullshit you and say that the ToS states that they only accept returns for products that weren’t opened, but they always cave after I send them the exact part of the consumer laws that support me. They have to refund the full amount, including shipping.
makeitdouble 4y ago
Imagine you order a box of condoms, open the box. The product doesn’t violate any factual claim of the seller, but it’s not what you had in mind and want to return the box. Should the seller eat the loss and accept the return? That’s one simple case, but there will be myriads of other cases where a customer simply opening the case means the product has no retail value anymore. You can’t blanket set a rule where the seller eats the loss no matter what. The customer having to prove beyond doubt that they were shipped a product that is fraudulent under objective standards is a natural evolution of a marketplace. The middle ground is heuristics and surveillance of overall customer claims, but I’m not sure that’s what we’re arguing about.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  That’s the easiest proposition ever. Do you want to be the entity that enabled my wife and I to have an all weekend sexathon, with the piece of mind that there’s no surprise baby coming? Or do you want the be the entity that cock-blocked me by sticking us with the condoms she doesn’t like? It’s worth more than the value of the product to be the vendor that got me laid. Companies like Amazon are making bad customer decisions like this because their growth trajectory is falling and they didn’t see it coming. So they are stuck with stupid capital investments and with running their own version of the post office that they don’t really need. So now the MBA idiots assume that I’m some sort of criminal scamming them out of condoms. (All the while operating the largest carnival of grift ever devised via FBA) Whatever, I’ll go to CVS and deal with the inconvenience and awful shopping experience rather than risk being stuck with a product I don’t like.
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    Do you get to return condom boxes at CVS ? > It’s worth more than the value of the product to be the vendor that got me laid. This is of course the key. Is it actually worth more to them ? To jest, if for instance you were ready to give up on Amazon and go buy everything from Wallmart at the first sign Amazon isn’t treating you well enough, and expect to be buying high brand goods at lower than market price, your LTV will probably be pretty low to Amazon. And of course, as you don’t like their condoms, you’re also basically dead to the seller. On the other hand, if you were willing to eat up the price of a box of condoms, see high value in the Amazon experience, will continue to buy Amazon stuff even if there’s occasional hiccups, you’re a ton more valuable to Amazon. But then their real value to you won’t be wether they force the seller to accept the return, but probably wether they can get you a box of a different brand ASAP.

SoftTalker 4y ago

Caveat Emptor. AFAIK it's legal. Might be courteous to disclose "no returns accepted" on such listings, but I don't think it's mandatory, at least not everywhere. Buy with a credit card that offers warranty coverage on purchased items.

archontes 4y ago
It's reasonable they could do a chargeback on the basis of violation of implied warranty of fitness. Edit: it's probably a violation of implied warranty of merchantability.
ghaff 4y ago
Even brick and mortar stores definitely will sell special items (discontinued items, returned items, etc.) on an all sales final basis sometimes.

wahnfrieden 4y ago

in the US yeah. it takes coordinated pressure from the working class to get reasonable-seeming laws like that passed. when we leave our rights to corporate charity, this is what we're left with

drstewart 4y ago
You mean Japan, not the US. https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/zt9ra1/why_is_it_not_possible_to_return_a_product/ https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/zt9ra1/why_is_it...
- layer8 4y ago
  That’s in a physical store, which aren’t obligated to accept returns in Europe either (though they often do). Accepting returns is only mandatory for online sales, because there the buyer can’t physically evaluate the product like they can in a physical store.

unity1001 4y ago

> Is that legal? Not in Europe.

into_infinity 4y ago
I think we're conflating two things. A seller has to refund / replace / repair any merchandise that is defective or not as advertised, and that's true in the US and in the EU. A seller does not necessarily have to accept returns if you changed your mind, found the item cheaper somewhere else, or just don't like it. Pretty sure that's also the case in the EU.
- pocketarc 4y ago
  That is not the case at least in the UK; you have 14 days after receiving an item, for any online purchase you make, to return it, even if you just changed your mind. Consumer protection regulations are genuinely so nice for feeling at ease with buying stuff online.
- Macha 4y ago
  It is not the case in the EU, the legal term is "cooling off period". You get 14 days to change your mind for physical products ordered online
- luisrudge 4y ago
  In Brazil you have 7 days to return any online order, no questions asked. You can use the product and return if you don’t like it, provided the product is not scratched etc. Companies might try to bullshit you and say that the ToS states that they only accept returns for products that weren’t opened, but they always cave after I send them the exact part of the consumer laws that support me. They have to refund the full amount, including shipping.

makeitdouble 4y ago

Imagine you order a box of condoms, open the box. The product doesn’t violate any factual claim of the seller, but it’s not what you had in mind and want to return the box. Should the seller eat the loss and accept the return? That’s one simple case, but there will be myriads of other cases where a customer simply opening the case means the product has no retail value anymore. You can’t blanket set a rule where the seller eats the loss no matter what. The customer having to prove beyond doubt that they were shipped a product that is fraudulent under objective standards is a natural evolution of a marketplace. The middle ground is heuristics and surveillance of overall customer claims, but I’m not sure that’s what we’re arguing about.

Spooky23 4y ago
That’s the easiest proposition ever. Do you want to be the entity that enabled my wife and I to have an all weekend sexathon, with the piece of mind that there’s no surprise baby coming? Or do you want the be the entity that cock-blocked me by sticking us with the condoms she doesn’t like? It’s worth more than the value of the product to be the vendor that got me laid. Companies like Amazon are making bad customer decisions like this because their growth trajectory is falling and they didn’t see it coming. So they are stuck with stupid capital investments and with running their own version of the post office that they don’t really need. So now the MBA idiots assume that I’m some sort of criminal scamming them out of condoms. (All the while operating the largest carnival of grift ever devised via FBA) Whatever, I’ll go to CVS and deal with the inconvenience and awful shopping experience rather than risk being stuck with a product I don’t like.
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  Do you get to return condom boxes at CVS ? > It’s worth more than the value of the product to be the vendor that got me laid. This is of course the key. Is it actually worth more to them ? To jest, if for instance you were ready to give up on Amazon and go buy everything from Wallmart at the first sign Amazon isn’t treating you well enough, and expect to be buying high brand goods at lower than market price, your LTV will probably be pretty low to Amazon. And of course, as you don’t like their condoms, you’re also basically dead to the seller. On the other hand, if you were willing to eat up the price of a box of condoms, see high value in the Amazon experience, will continue to buy Amazon stuff even if there’s occasional hiccups, you’re a ton more valuable to Amazon. But then their real value to you won’t be wether they force the seller to accept the return, but probably wether they can get you a box of a different brand ASAP.