5 ms·

Why is it that Americans don't use Germany as an example of a country sliding into authoritarian censorship, but would argue such if the same restrictions were

Why is it that Americans don't use Germany as an example of a country sliding into authoritarian censorship, but would argue such if the same restrictions were applied to the US?

colonCapitalDee 4y ago
Because German society is very different from American society due to historical factors. The modern German state and people must grapple with their country's role in WW2 and the Holocaust. They have chosen to limit free speech for the sake of preventing future catastrophes, and that seems quite sensible to me. America's history isn't pristine by a long shot, but we don't have a legacy comparable to the Germans to grapple with. Without a clear and compelling reason for limiting speech, myself and most Americans favor free speech. Attempting to restrict speech without a clear and compelling reason (and I believe that such reasons do not currently exist in America) would be tyranny.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  That makes sense. Most of the time it comes across as an absolute: there is no such thing as a clear and compelling reason and none could ever exist.
SllX 4y ago
Live and let live is the order of the day between the United States and Germany. We are separate sovereign nations, allies, do not present as threats to each other, we each have our own values but Germany’s values are close enough to ours to be basically compatible and isn’t trying to export its censorship regime to the United States. Why would we rock that boat absent a reason?
0xBDB 4y ago
German speech policies are absolutely not without critics in the United States. I take no position on whether these criticisms are correct; just supplying information. https://reason.com/2022/09/23/germanys-criminalization-of-online-offensiveness-shows-the-perils-of-weakening-the-first-amendment/ https://reason.com/2022/09/23/germanys-criminalization-of-on... As a practical matter I'd guess that even civil-libertarian Americans don't spend a lot of time criticizing Germany and France for several reasons: 1) They're allies. 2) Some of us don't know where they are. 3) For the most part, they're obviously free countries. There's simply going to be cultural variation on some things - free speech, the death penalty, etc. - for historical and cultural reasons.

Why is it that Americans don't use Germany as an example of a country sliding into authoritarian censorship, but would argue such if the same restrictions were applied to the US?

colonCapitalDee 4y ago

Because German society is very different from American society due to historical factors. The modern German state and people must grapple with their country's role in WW2 and the Holocaust. They have chosen to limit free speech for the sake of preventing future catastrophes, and that seems quite sensible to me. America's history isn't pristine by a long shot, but we don't have a legacy comparable to the Germans to grapple with. Without a clear and compelling reason for limiting speech, myself and most Americans favor free speech. Attempting to restrict speech without a clear and compelling reason (and I believe that such reasons do not currently exist in America) would be tyranny.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
That makes sense. Most of the time it comes across as an absolute: there is no such thing as a clear and compelling reason and none could ever exist.

SllX 4y ago

Live and let live is the order of the day between the United States and Germany. We are separate sovereign nations, allies, do not present as threats to each other, we each have our own values but Germany’s values are close enough to ours to be basically compatible and isn’t trying to export its censorship regime to the United States. Why would we rock that boat absent a reason?

0xBDB 4y ago

German speech policies are absolutely not without critics in the United States. I take no position on whether these criticisms are correct; just supplying information. https://reason.com/2022/09/23/germanys-criminalization-of-online-offensiveness-shows-the-perils-of-weakening-the-first-amendment/ https://reason.com/2022/09/23/germanys-criminalization-of-on... As a practical matter I'd guess that even civil-libertarian Americans don't spend a lot of time criticizing Germany and France for several reasons: 1) They're allies. 2) Some of us don't know where they are. 3) For the most part, they're obviously free countries. There's simply going to be cultural variation on some things - free speech, the death penalty, etc. - for historical and cultural reasons.