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When people talk about defunding the police, they don't mean not having officers investigate crime, or pull over speeders and drunk drivers. They mean taking aw

When people talk about defunding the police, they don't mean not having officers investigate crime, or pull over speeders and drunk drivers. They mean taking away money from police who use force and threat of arrest against people described in this article. This was an issue of communication and how to work with people of your own community. There were no criminals here. There was no threat of violence. There was just an airport gate which was being severely inconvenienced by Southwest's major screwup. If the police can't see the difference, what's the point of paying them to do their jobs.

brookst 4y ago
Yes. More generally “defund the police” means “de-scope the police” to get them out of jobs they are not trained for or good at, and especially those which require the exact opposite of typical police skills.
- automatic6131 4y ago
  Maybe change the slogan you use then. At best, it's bad marketing. At worst, it's a motte-and-bailey manipulation.
  - brookst 4y ago
    I don’t use that slogan, but thanks. And yeah it was terrible branding at best and intentionally counterproductive at worst.
- eastbound 4y ago
  Absolutely not: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the congresswoman, clarified in an interview that “Defund the police” meant precisely “DEFUND the police” and should NOT be reinterpreted to suit one’s imagination. Source: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/aoc-defund-the-police-means-defund-the-police https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/aoc-defund-the-po...
  - willnonya 4y ago
    Well, if AOC said it how can there be any room for discussion or misunderstanding?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - undersuit 4y ago
    OK but why would we continue to pay the police to do things they aren't doing. >“In many cases,” she added, “it means redirecting funds from police departments to other parts of society that help people like housing, education, and communities.” Just like the person you're responding to said.
  - brookst 4y ago
    Even given the Washington Examiner’s far-right politics, that article doesn’t say what you think it does.
    - reducesuffering 4y ago
      How about NYT? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...
notch656c 4y ago
Nah, I'm talking about taking away all their funding. If an organization is a criminal racketeering organization, you don't get to pretend like you're just funding the good half.
- SkipperCat 4y ago
  In theory that sounds good, but I think in practice it would fail. The vacuum would just be filled by some other nefarious and violent group. I like the idea of police having to have personal insurance. If they screw up enough, they lose their insurance and thus cannot afford to still engage in policing. Add to that outside oversight to their affairs (internal affair investigation is just prone to corruption) and let their unions only fight for working conditions, wages and benefits instead of being a lobby to keep bad cops.
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
  1. Increase funding for other agencies and programs that deal with causes of crime and poverty 2. Fire all or most police officers and administrators and rehire based on different criteria 3. De-escalation training and zero tolerance for escalation 4. Stop protecting killer cops. Get rid of qualified immunity and every cop needs insurance coverage.
- tunesmith 4y ago
  Another example of how the marketing is lousy. Some people strenuously say "No, it doesn't mean remove all funding entirely, that would be insane, how dare you interpret it that way?" and others say, "That's exactly what we mean."
  - notch656c 4y ago
    It's intentionally vague as a form of trickery, as are most slogans intended to unite masses.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
cscurmudgeon 4y ago
> When people talk about defunding the police, they don't mean not having officers investigate crime, or pull over speeders and drunk drivers. They mean taking away money from police who use force and threat of arrest against people described in this article. False. Some people literally want to abolish the police. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...
- petsfed 4y ago
  I've been hard pressed to find anyone who honestly believes there should be zero consequences for violating laws or generally acting in an anti-social manner. What I find a lot is folks who believe the entire judicial system, police, prison, courts, and laws, is basically broken and the whole thing should be torn down, to be replaced with something that has the same core mission (that is, enforce adherence to a set of rules/mores that generate a stable, safe, productive society), but doesn't have the centuries of problematic culture baked in. It is an abolition movement, not because folks don't want consequences for their actions, but because the police state does not appear to have a stable, safe, and productive society as its core goal.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    > It is an abolition movement, not because folks don't want consequences for their actions, but because the police state does not appear to have a stable, safe, and productive society as its core goal. Have you spoken to any minorities? As an Asian immigrant, I feel much safer with more police and will support more funding for police. As a democracy, we should listen to what people want (acting otherwise is fascist). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-share-of-americans-say-they-want-more-spending-on-police-in-their-area/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-sha... > The share of adults who say spending on policing in their area should be increased now stands at 47%, up from 31% in June 2020. That includes 21% who say funding for their local police should be increased a lot, up from 11% who said this last summer. The police are not perfect but the hard data and critical thinking doesn't support the assertion that we have a police state. As someone who emigrated from an actual police state to the US, please travel to a real police state and then compare it to the system we have here. > I've been hard pressed to find anyone who honestly believes there should be zero consequences for violating laws or generally acting in an anti-social manner. Really? There are huge swathes of population that thinks that way.

brookst 4y ago

Yes. More generally “defund the police” means “de-scope the police” to get them out of jobs they are not trained for or good at, and especially those which require the exact opposite of typical police skills.

automatic6131 4y ago
Maybe change the slogan you use then. At best, it's bad marketing. At worst, it's a motte-and-bailey manipulation.
- brookst 4y ago
  I don’t use that slogan, but thanks. And yeah it was terrible branding at best and intentionally counterproductive at worst.
eastbound 4y ago
Absolutely not: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the congresswoman, clarified in an interview that “Defund the police” meant precisely “DEFUND the police” and should NOT be reinterpreted to suit one’s imagination. Source: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/aoc-defund-the-police-means-defund-the-police https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/aoc-defund-the-po...
- willnonya 4y ago
  Well, if AOC said it how can there be any room for discussion or misunderstanding?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- undersuit 4y ago
  OK but why would we continue to pay the police to do things they aren't doing. >“In many cases,” she added, “it means redirecting funds from police departments to other parts of society that help people like housing, education, and communities.” Just like the person you're responding to said.
- brookst 4y ago
  Even given the Washington Examiner’s far-right politics, that article doesn’t say what you think it does.
  - reducesuffering 4y ago
    How about NYT? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...

notch656c 4y ago

Nah, I'm talking about taking away all their funding. If an organization is a criminal racketeering organization, you don't get to pretend like you're just funding the good half.

SkipperCat 4y ago
In theory that sounds good, but I think in practice it would fail. The vacuum would just be filled by some other nefarious and violent group. I like the idea of police having to have personal insurance. If they screw up enough, they lose their insurance and thus cannot afford to still engage in policing. Add to that outside oversight to their affairs (internal affair investigation is just prone to corruption) and let their unions only fight for working conditions, wages and benefits instead of being a lobby to keep bad cops.
zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
1. Increase funding for other agencies and programs that deal with causes of crime and poverty 2. Fire all or most police officers and administrators and rehire based on different criteria 3. De-escalation training and zero tolerance for escalation 4. Stop protecting killer cops. Get rid of qualified immunity and every cop needs insurance coverage.
tunesmith 4y ago
Another example of how the marketing is lousy. Some people strenuously say "No, it doesn't mean remove all funding entirely, that would be insane, how dare you interpret it that way?" and others say, "That's exactly what we mean."
- notch656c 4y ago
  It's intentionally vague as a form of trickery, as are most slogans intended to unite masses.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

cscurmudgeon 4y ago

> When people talk about defunding the police, they don't mean not having officers investigate crime, or pull over speeders and drunk drivers. They mean taking away money from police who use force and threat of arrest against people described in this article. False. Some people literally want to abolish the police. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.amp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...

petsfed 4y ago
I've been hard pressed to find anyone who honestly believes there should be zero consequences for violating laws or generally acting in an anti-social manner. What I find a lot is folks who believe the entire judicial system, police, prison, courts, and laws, is basically broken and the whole thing should be torn down, to be replaced with something that has the same core mission (that is, enforce adherence to a set of rules/mores that generate a stable, safe, productive society), but doesn't have the centuries of problematic culture baked in. It is an abolition movement, not because folks don't want consequences for their actions, but because the police state does not appear to have a stable, safe, and productive society as its core goal.
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  > It is an abolition movement, not because folks don't want consequences for their actions, but because the police state does not appear to have a stable, safe, and productive society as its core goal. Have you spoken to any minorities? As an Asian immigrant, I feel much safer with more police and will support more funding for police. As a democracy, we should listen to what people want (acting otherwise is fascist). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-share-of-americans-say-they-want-more-spending-on-police-in-their-area/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-sha... > The share of adults who say spending on policing in their area should be increased now stands at 47%, up from 31% in June 2020. That includes 21% who say funding for their local police should be increased a lot, up from 11% who said this last summer. The police are not perfect but the hard data and critical thinking doesn't support the assertion that we have a police state. As someone who emigrated from an actual police state to the US, please travel to a real police state and then compare it to the system we have here. > I've been hard pressed to find anyone who honestly believes there should be zero consequences for violating laws or generally acting in an anti-social manner. Really? There are huge swathes of population that thinks that way.