4 ms·

McMurdo uses diesel generators. Which require oxygen, which is free on earth and very very expensive on the moon

rini17 4y ago
Any permanent habitation should include a smelter to alleviate some of the cost of shipping metals from Earth. From it oxygen or CO2 will be "waste" byproducts, liquefacting and storing them should not be a problem. I can imagine that having large reserve of oxygen will be desired safety feature. Hydrocarbons will likely be in short supply on the moon but if there is, say, a zinc mined, it could be "burned" in zinc-air cells.
- seastarer 4y ago
  The energy cost of extracting oxygen is higher than you'd get from burning it.
  - lalaland1125 4y ago
    You would extract oxygen during the day and burn it at night
- GlenTheMachine 4y ago
  There's also the cost of the diesel fuel (or whatever fuel you burn) to consider. With no native hydrocarbons on the moon, extracting them would be impossible. So they would need to be launched from earth, at many tens of thousands of dollars per kilogram as an ongoing cost. The biggest challenge to the obvious solutions - either solar plus lots of batteries, or nuclear - would be to crack water into oxygen and hydrogen, and then burn them during the night. The challenge there is storing the hydrogen. But if you do that, basically what you'd be doing is using hydrogen/oxygen as an energy storage mechanism, e.g. as a battery. You'd need to use solar during the day to crack the water.
  - rini17 4y ago
    Why store hydrogen when you can use the metals? I mentioned zinc as that's most mature technology, but almost all of them can be reacted with oxygen to get back energy.
    - GlenTheMachine 4y ago
      Because the content of metal in lunar soil is very very low.
      - nine_k 4y ago
        Not really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_soil#Mineralogy_and_composition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_soil#Mineralogy_and_comp... 12% by mass is iron, with calcium, aluminum, magnesium at 7-8%. These could be considered ores worth mining on Earth. All four metals readily burn in oxygen, even though aluminum needs some help igniting.
acidburnNSA 4y ago
McMurdo used to be nuclear powered, by PM-3A aka Nukey Poo. But diesel was cheaper. On the moon that equation probably reverses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Nuclear_Power_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Nuclear_Power_Program

Any permanent habitation should include a smelter to alleviate some of the cost of shipping metals from Earth. From it oxygen or CO2 will be "waste" byproducts, liquefacting and storing them should not be a problem. I can imagine that having large reserve of oxygen will be desired safety feature. Hydrocarbons will likely be in short supply on the moon but if there is, say, a zinc mined, it could be "burned" in zinc-air cells.

seastarer 4y ago
The energy cost of extracting oxygen is higher than you'd get from burning it.
- lalaland1125 4y ago
  You would extract oxygen during the day and burn it at night
GlenTheMachine 4y ago
There's also the cost of the diesel fuel (or whatever fuel you burn) to consider. With no native hydrocarbons on the moon, extracting them would be impossible. So they would need to be launched from earth, at many tens of thousands of dollars per kilogram as an ongoing cost. The biggest challenge to the obvious solutions - either solar plus lots of batteries, or nuclear - would be to crack water into oxygen and hydrogen, and then burn them during the night. The challenge there is storing the hydrogen. But if you do that, basically what you'd be doing is using hydrogen/oxygen as an energy storage mechanism, e.g. as a battery. You'd need to use solar during the day to crack the water.
- rini17 4y ago
  Why store hydrogen when you can use the metals? I mentioned zinc as that's most mature technology, but almost all of them can be reacted with oxygen to get back energy.
  - GlenTheMachine 4y ago
    Because the content of metal in lunar soil is very very low.
    - nine_k 4y ago
      Not really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_soil#Mineralogy_and_composition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_soil#Mineralogy_and_comp... 12% by mass is iron, with calcium, aluminum, magnesium at 7-8%. These could be considered ores worth mining on Earth. All four metals readily burn in oxygen, even though aluminum needs some help igniting.

acidburnNSA 4y ago

McMurdo used to be nuclear powered, by PM-3A aka Nukey Poo. But diesel was cheaper. On the moon that equation probably reverses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Nuclear_Power_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Nuclear_Power_Program