5 ms·

In Japan, defamation doesn't require falsehood. Yes, you can be punished for defamation for having told the truth!

by glandium 4y ago

sschueller 4y ago
How can a society function like that when any wealthy person can just sue you for saying anything?
- alkonaut 4y ago
  I think that you said “any wealthy person” is telling. That you expect that the law is a tool available to the wealthy. Why would it be like that? As for the defamation itself, it’s no more “anything” that can be defamatory even though there is no requirement of falsehood. The intent to defame is still required. Most publications will fail that test (any journalism/public interest etc).
  - ejb999 4y ago
    >>That you expect that the law is a tool available to the wealthy. Why would it be like that? Its really not that complicated - wealthy people can hire lawyers to sue someone, poor and middle-class people not so much.
    - chmod775 4y ago
      Someone who can't afford a lawyer can probably not be considered middle-class. That would mean they have no discretionary income to speak of.
      - Retric 4y ago
        Being able to pay a professional for to do significant amounts of work which is likely to result in zero value for you is a high hurdle. Many possibly most lawyers can’t afford to employ lawyers to sue someone.
      - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
        There's a difference between affording a lawyer and affording a lawsuit. Suing someone risks having to pay the defendant's legal fees. And to win a complicated case probably involves hiring a law firm that has the manpower to do tons of research and so on, which costs a lot more than having your will done or looking over a contract, say.
  - revolvingocelot 4y ago
    "If you're a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system." -- Peter Thiel [0] [0] https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-says-single-digit-millionaires-have-no-effective-access-to-our-legal-system/ https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-sa...
rippercushions 4y ago
As an individual, yes, but for "reporting in the public interest" truth is a defence in Japan. That's the theory, anyway. In practice, the Japan Sumo Association won a major defamation suit against a tabloid claiming matches were being rigged, despite there being incontrovertible proof that matches were being rigged and the Sumo Association itself expelling a dozen wrestlers for their part in the scheme.
fi358 4y ago
In Finland defamation doesn't (always) require falsehood either and I think the same is true in Sweden as well. However, you are much more likely to get a conviction if the statement you made is a lie. And there has to be also the intent to insult or intent to make other people to despise the victim. And even non-verbal acts can be defamation. For example showing middle finger to somebody can be defamation and I have heard that using gardening hose to make other person wet could also be defamation. There is also one other crime in the Finnish law that can make it crime to tell true facts called "yksityiselämää loukkaava tiedon levittäminen" (which means basically spreading information in a way that it violates persons privacy). For example writing in a newspaper that "a woman was molested by her father and now has HIV" could lead to a conviction even if all the facts are true, if that woman has not wanted to make this information public and if readers are able to recognize who this woman is.
greggarious 4y ago
> In Japan, defamation doesn't require falsehood. Yes, you can be punished for defamation for having told the truth! Is it actually DEFAMATION then, not something akin to "false light"[1]? (I can't define such a term, since I lack both character and fitness, and thus lack a JD, and thus can't understand why some people seem to have different standards of behavior than others in this cursed commonwealth[2]) [1] https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/pennsylvania-false-light https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/pennsylvania-false-light [2] I'm not your friend, but I am in Pennsylvania today.
GuB-42 4y ago
I don't know about Japan, but some statements may be true but misleading. For example, saying that someone is involved in a crime it a way that make people think he is guilty when he is, in fact, the victim. For example, "Mr.X is involved in a series of robberies" when he has been robbed. Other cases where defamation can be invoked is with illegally obtained, private information. For example "Mr.X has been diagnosed with $medical_condition, so...", a clear violation of medical privacy, especially if the one making the accusation is a doctor.

In Japan, defamation doesn't require falsehood. Yes, you can be punished for defamation for having told the truth!

sschueller 4y ago

How can a society function like that when any wealthy person can just sue you for saying anything?

alkonaut 4y ago
I think that you said “any wealthy person” is telling. That you expect that the law is a tool available to the wealthy. Why would it be like that? As for the defamation itself, it’s no more “anything” that can be defamatory even though there is no requirement of falsehood. The intent to defame is still required. Most publications will fail that test (any journalism/public interest etc).
- ejb999 4y ago
  >>That you expect that the law is a tool available to the wealthy. Why would it be like that? Its really not that complicated - wealthy people can hire lawyers to sue someone, poor and middle-class people not so much.
  - chmod775 4y ago
    Someone who can't afford a lawyer can probably not be considered middle-class. That would mean they have no discretionary income to speak of.
    - Retric 4y ago
      Being able to pay a professional for to do significant amounts of work which is likely to result in zero value for you is a high hurdle. Many possibly most lawyers can’t afford to employ lawyers to sue someone.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      There's a difference between affording a lawyer and affording a lawsuit. Suing someone risks having to pay the defendant's legal fees. And to win a complicated case probably involves hiring a law firm that has the manpower to do tons of research and so on, which costs a lot more than having your will done or looking over a contract, say.
- revolvingocelot 4y ago
  "If you're a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system." -- Peter Thiel [0] [0] https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-says-single-digit-millionaires-have-no-effective-access-to-our-legal-system/ https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-sa...

rippercushions 4y ago

As an individual, yes, but for "reporting in the public interest" truth is a defence in Japan. That's the theory, anyway. In practice, the Japan Sumo Association won a major defamation suit against a tabloid claiming matches were being rigged, despite there being incontrovertible proof that matches were being rigged and the Sumo Association itself expelling a dozen wrestlers for their part in the scheme.

fi358 4y ago

In Finland defamation doesn't (always) require falsehood either and I think the same is true in Sweden as well. However, you are much more likely to get a conviction if the statement you made is a lie. And there has to be also the intent to insult or intent to make other people to despise the victim. And even non-verbal acts can be defamation. For example showing middle finger to somebody can be defamation and I have heard that using gardening hose to make other person wet could also be defamation. There is also one other crime in the Finnish law that can make it crime to tell true facts called "yksityiselämää loukkaava tiedon levittäminen" (which means basically spreading information in a way that it violates persons privacy). For example writing in a newspaper that "a woman was molested by her father and now has HIV" could lead to a conviction even if all the facts are true, if that woman has not wanted to make this information public and if readers are able to recognize who this woman is.

greggarious 4y ago

> In Japan, defamation doesn't require falsehood. Yes, you can be punished for defamation for having told the truth! Is it actually DEFAMATION then, not something akin to "false light"[1]? (I can't define such a term, since I lack both character and fitness, and thus lack a JD, and thus can't understand why some people seem to have different standards of behavior than others in this cursed commonwealth[2]) [1] https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/pennsylvania-false-light https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/pennsylvania-false-light [2] I'm not your friend, but I am in Pennsylvania today.

GuB-42 4y ago

I don't know about Japan, but some statements may be true but misleading. For example, saying that someone is involved in a crime it a way that make people think he is guilty when he is, in fact, the victim. For example, "Mr.X is involved in a series of robberies" when he has been robbed. Other cases where defamation can be invoked is with illegally obtained, private information. For example "Mr.X has been diagnosed with $medical_condition, so...", a clear violation of medical privacy, especially if the one making the accusation is a doctor.