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> "lockdown" How exactly was that word's definition twisted? Not being allowed outside like in <https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-arrested-park-throwing

> "lockdown" How exactly was that word's definition twisted? Not being allowed outside like in <https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-arrested-park-throwing-ball-daughter-due/story?id=70032966 https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-arrested-park-throw...> seems perfectly in line with Merriam-Webster's definition 2b of it.

mindslight 4y ago
The M-W definition 2b is from Covid, so it's not indicative. Re the article, it seems Mooney was legally in the right, which actually supports my point. So the story is really just about bog standard power tripping cops, and their general unaccountibility (did Mooney pursue and win his lawsuit? More critically, did the overstepping, needlessly violent, and needlessly covid-spreading cops ever suffer any repercussions for their behavior? good luck...) "Lockdown" implies that you yourself are locked down like definition 2a - ie stuck in your home. Some countries did this, and we're all familiar with the stories of apartment building doors welded shut in China. But the US overwhelmingly had stay at home suggestions. As far as I can tell, it was only a few counties in California that had bona fide stay at home orders. A lot of people thought the suggestions had the force of law, but they did not. And I wasn't going to correct them - that combination was the best we could have hoped for. Ultimately, the term "lockdown" is a motte and bailey term where the motte is evoking totalitarianism like China, with a fall back to defenses like "the paint was 'locked down' at Home Depot as it was deemed non-essential". I agree there were a lot of things that were closed that shouldn't have been. Other things were legitimately closed. And many things were closed with a crude justification, which was never reexamined or redefined with nuance. Collapsing it all to a singular hyperbolic narrative of "lockdown" ultimately just played on people's frustration with the existence of the pandemic, and made it difficult to have nuanced discussions about what were reasonable restrictions and what were not.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > The M-W definition 2b is from Covid, so it's not indicative. Doesn't it meet this definition too? https://web.archive.org/web/20171006230722/https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/lockdown https://web.archive.org/web/20171006230722/https://dictionar... > Re the article, it seems Mooney was legally in the right, which actually supports my point. How about this story then? https://idahonews.com/news/local/meridian-mom-arrested-at-park-during-covid-seeks-case-dismissal https://idahonews.com/news/local/meridian-mom-arrested-at-pa... > But the US overwhelmingly had stay at home suggestions. As far as I can tell, it was only a few counties in California that had bona fide stay at home orders. A lot of people thought the suggestions had the force of law, but they did not. And I wasn't going to correct them - that combination was the best we could have hoped for. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-stay-at-home-order.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-stay... disagrees. And even if they were just suggestions, why do you think a bunch of people being misinformed would be "the best we could have hoped for"? > Ultimately, the term "lockdown" is a motte and bailey term where the motte is evoking totalitarianism like China, with a fall back to defenses like "the paint was 'locked down' at Home Depot as it was deemed non-essential". No, even in the US, there were indeed orders to the effect of "no leaving home except to get food or medical care".
  - mindslight 4y ago
    That is similar to M-W definition 2a, no? The point is that it revolves around a specific place. Referring to nonspecific "lockdown" implies it is general and society wide - ie everyone is stuck in their homes. The "emergency" part of that definition contributes to the hyperbole. Closing of a mall due to the pandemic is much closer to closing due to night time, than closing because it is an active crime scene. > How about this story then? [(mom "legitimately" arrested for being in park)] I agree that closing open air parks was extremely stupid and overbearing, even without the benefit of hindsight. But specific venues being closed, even ridiculously, still does not imply population wide "lockdown". > why do you think a bunch of people being misinformed would be "the best we could have hoped for"? I'm libertarian. In my estimation, the main reason libertarianism doesn't play out in practice is that people make poor decisions from relying on poor heuristics rather than really thinking things through. Have you ever tried to convince someone to engage in a mutually-beneficial course of action? Their ego fights it, presumably based on the possibility that you might be trying to trick them. For example, despite reports of the pandemic from January and February, most people stayed the course of denial until governments started taking action in mid-March. So when people have a poor understanding that causes them to make a better decision, I'd call that a win. Having governments lead people through speech is much more preferable than through law and its implied violence. (Note that this isn't an endorsement of so-called "libertarian paternalism" where the government actively gets in your way) > even in the US, there were indeed orders to the effect of "no leaving home except to get food or medical care". Find me more examples than the few counties in California, and I'll add them to my list. I'm sure more places did exist, it just didn't seem to be a large part of the country, from what I can tell.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      > That is similar to M-W definition 2a, no? Sure, but doesn't it fit the way it was used? And it's an archived version of the page from 2017, so it can't be from Covid. > But specific venues being closed, even ridiculously, still does not imply population wide "lockdown". But it wasn't just specific venues. It was everywhere except grocery stores and medical facilities. > Find me more examples than the few counties in California, and I'll add them to my list. I'm sure more places did exist, it just didn't seem to be a large part of the country, from what I can tell. Aren't all of the states in https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-stay-at-home-order.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-stay... that I previously linked to more examples?

mindslight 4y ago

The M-W definition 2b is from Covid, so it's not indicative. Re the article, it seems Mooney was legally in the right, which actually supports my point. So the story is really just about bog standard power tripping cops, and their general unaccountibility (did Mooney pursue and win his lawsuit? More critically, did the overstepping, needlessly violent, and needlessly covid-spreading cops ever suffer any repercussions for their behavior? good luck...) "Lockdown" implies that you yourself are locked down like definition 2a - ie stuck in your home. Some countries did this, and we're all familiar with the stories of apartment building doors welded shut in China. But the US overwhelmingly had stay at home suggestions. As far as I can tell, it was only a few counties in California that had bona fide stay at home orders. A lot of people thought the suggestions had the force of law, but they did not. And I wasn't going to correct them - that combination was the best we could have hoped for. Ultimately, the term "lockdown" is a motte and bailey term where the motte is evoking totalitarianism like China, with a fall back to defenses like "the paint was 'locked down' at Home Depot as it was deemed non-essential". I agree there were a lot of things that were closed that shouldn't have been. Other things were legitimately closed. And many things were closed with a crude justification, which was never reexamined or redefined with nuance. Collapsing it all to a singular hyperbolic narrative of "lockdown" ultimately just played on people's frustration with the existence of the pandemic, and made it difficult to have nuanced discussions about what were reasonable restrictions and what were not.

josephcsible 4y ago
> The M-W definition 2b is from Covid, so it's not indicative. Doesn't it meet this definition too? https://web.archive.org/web/20171006230722/https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/lockdown https://web.archive.org/web/20171006230722/https://dictionar... > Re the article, it seems Mooney was legally in the right, which actually supports my point. How about this story then? https://idahonews.com/news/local/meridian-mom-arrested-at-park-during-covid-seeks-case-dismissal https://idahonews.com/news/local/meridian-mom-arrested-at-pa... > But the US overwhelmingly had stay at home suggestions. As far as I can tell, it was only a few counties in California that had bona fide stay at home orders. A lot of people thought the suggestions had the force of law, but they did not. And I wasn't going to correct them - that combination was the best we could have hoped for. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-stay-at-home-order.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-stay... disagrees. And even if they were just suggestions, why do you think a bunch of people being misinformed would be "the best we could have hoped for"? > Ultimately, the term "lockdown" is a motte and bailey term where the motte is evoking totalitarianism like China, with a fall back to defenses like "the paint was 'locked down' at Home Depot as it was deemed non-essential". No, even in the US, there were indeed orders to the effect of "no leaving home except to get food or medical care".
- mindslight 4y ago
  That is similar to M-W definition 2a, no? The point is that it revolves around a specific place. Referring to nonspecific "lockdown" implies it is general and society wide - ie everyone is stuck in their homes. The "emergency" part of that definition contributes to the hyperbole. Closing of a mall due to the pandemic is much closer to closing due to night time, than closing because it is an active crime scene. > How about this story then? [(mom "legitimately" arrested for being in park)] I agree that closing open air parks was extremely stupid and overbearing, even without the benefit of hindsight. But specific venues being closed, even ridiculously, still does not imply population wide "lockdown". > why do you think a bunch of people being misinformed would be "the best we could have hoped for"? I'm libertarian. In my estimation, the main reason libertarianism doesn't play out in practice is that people make poor decisions from relying on poor heuristics rather than really thinking things through. Have you ever tried to convince someone to engage in a mutually-beneficial course of action? Their ego fights it, presumably based on the possibility that you might be trying to trick them. For example, despite reports of the pandemic from January and February, most people stayed the course of denial until governments started taking action in mid-March. So when people have a poor understanding that causes them to make a better decision, I'd call that a win. Having governments lead people through speech is much more preferable than through law and its implied violence. (Note that this isn't an endorsement of so-called "libertarian paternalism" where the government actively gets in your way) > even in the US, there were indeed orders to the effect of "no leaving home except to get food or medical care". Find me more examples than the few counties in California, and I'll add them to my list. I'm sure more places did exist, it just didn't seem to be a large part of the country, from what I can tell.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    > That is similar to M-W definition 2a, no? Sure, but doesn't it fit the way it was used? And it's an archived version of the page from 2017, so it can't be from Covid. > But specific venues being closed, even ridiculously, still does not imply population wide "lockdown". But it wasn't just specific venues. It was everywhere except grocery stores and medical facilities. > Find me more examples than the few counties in California, and I'll add them to my list. I'm sure more places did exist, it just didn't seem to be a large part of the country, from what I can tell. Aren't all of the states in https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-stay-at-home-order.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-stay... that I previously linked to more examples?