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Freenet is well designed and well maintained, but it is a solution looking for a problem. We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opini

Freenet is well designed and well maintained, but it is a solution looking for a problem. We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks. At the moment, freenet has a bad reputation for hosting very illegal content. That rep is so bad that if authorities ever look into your internet traffic, freenet connections are more than enough to get warrants that will rip your life apart. Imho, running freenet is like commuting to work on a sportbike. It is perfectly legal (i used to do it) but dont be suprised if the cops pay closer attention to you. Except those "random" license checks by the roadside arent nearly as embarrassing as them inspecting your computers.

ArneBab 4y ago
Just having a Freenet connection does not get a warrant — though there are researchers who use some fishy statistics which may be reason not to run a very fast node in the US (because running a fast node provably causes false positives in their statistics). For some more details, see https://freenetproject.org/the-discredited-levine-2017-approach-is-still-used.html https://freenetproject.org/the-discredited-levine-2017-appro... and the links therein.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  I think you might underestimate how easy it is to get a search warrant, paticularly in the US. This isnt the standard for arrest, let alone conviction. A cop saying "the machine regularly connected to a suspect network" is more than enough for many judges/magistrates... most of which dont know an IP from an IPA. (Lol, got over v underestimate mixed up.)
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    Kyle Rittenhouse trial, the lawyer pinch zooming on an photo gallery on an iPhone and arguing its legit is all you need to know
    - boppo1 4y ago
      It's fascinating how bipartisan this issue is and how little people still seem to care.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    Can you provide examples?
FpUser 4y ago
>"We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks" The next statement below totally contradict the first one above. >"hat rep is so bad that if authorities ever look into your internet traffic, freenet connections are more than enough to get warrants that will rip your life apart." If mere internet traffic will "rip your life apart" - that is a police state in my book.
- voakbasda 4y ago
  > If mere internet traffic will "rip your life apart" - that is a police state in my book. Exactly. Anyone who thinks the US is not a police state has not been paying close enough attention, because the standard for getting a warrant is much lower than this. Moreover, cops will exaggerate the circumstances to get questionable warrants, and being served will absolutely ruin your day if not your life.
einpoklum 4y ago
> We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks. You may not, but many of us actually do. Naturally not every political opinion, and it depends on how you express it, but still. > At the moment, freenet has a bad reputation for hosting very illegal content. Why is that a bad reputation? Isn't that part of the point? ... Perhaps you mean unsavory, or immoral, or socially detrimental. > but dont be suprised if the cops pay closer attention to you Now that is a significant point in its disfavor, yes.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Freenet is known for child abuse content, a topic so sensitive and disturbing people don’t want to even refer to it directly.
  - ArneBab 4y ago
    These days you have to go actively searching to find such on Freenet. And as journalists proved multiple times¹, if you do go searching, you’ll find a lot more of it in the clearnet via forums accessible with Tor than in Freenet. And for the highest security in Freenet (the friend-to-friend mode), you need to have friends whom you trust not to go to lengths to spy on you — friends would be able to run statistical attacks if you transmit large amounts of known content. And such trusted friends are what people who want to access child abuse content do not have. ¹: Example (in German): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iItLpwkQMUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iItLpwkQMUQ
- sandworm101 4y ago
  I said illegal and meant exactly that. Morality and societal norms are debates for twitter and facebook. Tor/freenet/i2p are at another level of seriousness. Freenet has a rep for child abuse imagery.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - 4y ago
heavyset_go 4y ago
> We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks. Millions of people are in places where acknowledging that they want abortions[1] or miscarried[2] can pique the state's interest, along with people who are trans[3] or have trans kids[4]. We have police using web searches to prosecute women for abortion[1], we have states compiling lists of transgender individuals[3] and we have parents being investigated by the state because their kids were open about being trans[4]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/03/abortion-data-privacy-prosecution/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/03/abortio... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544 [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/12/14/texas-transgender-data-paxton/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/12/14/texas-trans... [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/09/23/texas-transgender-child-abuse-investigations/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/09/23/texas-tra...
- Lanz 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ww-picard-do 4y ago
    "Let the hate flow through you"
  - JaimeThompson 4y ago
    How are you using "woke" here?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- sandworm101 4y ago
  That is what Tor is for. If all you need is protection from authorities, Tor is enough. Freenet is content-focused, designed so that not even the original uploader can ever remove popular content. Tor protects people and speech from the police. Freenet protects files from everybody.
my_city 4y ago
>We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks. Try being a communist in America. You will get fired and your life ruined for your political opinions.
- JodieBenitez 4y ago
  Hey, try to be a social-nationalist anywhere, you'll probably even get jailed for your political opinions.
  - tbrownaw 4y ago
    Fortunately most of the nationalists I know recognize the value of capitalism, and most of the socialists think globalization is a good idea.
    - mikrotikker 4y ago
      Globalism is destroying the environment.
  - darthrupert 4y ago
    No, do not try to be a nazi. It's a horrible political philosophy.
    - JodieBenitez 4y ago
      Well, that was more like a rhetorical hypothesis. But I won't try to be a communist either.
- tbrownaw 4y ago
  It's been a few decades since McCarthy's house unamerican activities committee was a thing. These days you get people openly saying that capitalism is evil and major politicians insisting that ubi is the only way forward.
  - 4y ago
jackmott 4y ago
Texas will take your children from you if they get a report that they are transexual
- mikrotikker 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    Hmmm, not if they have reached age of consent which vary greatly between countries and possibly states and only if they perform said act. One kid/teenager could identify itself as hetero/bi/homo/whateversexual for example without having had sexual intercourses. Also I haven't seen parents being jailed in the countries I have lived in because their teenager were having sex regardless of the age of consent (excluding cases where said parents were actually involved in the act).
  - LocalH 4y ago
    Congratulations, you just sent the parents of heterosexual kids to jail
bboygravity 4y ago
Ever heard of China?
- ArneBab 4y ago
  That’s where we don’t want to end up, because they actually have on-device spying on mobile devices via the IME (which the Freenet First Start wizard warns about to avoid giving a false sense of security). Something like the planned ChatControl,¹ but through a non-trustworthy third party most people have installed for convenience. Nothing can fully protect against that. ¹: https://chatcontrol.eu https://chatcontrol.eu
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
You don't live in a police state. My Russian friends definitely do. You can easily get a large fine (on the order of 2 average monthly salaries), or 5-10 years in prison for stating your political opinion on the internet. There are many countries like that and I am not at all surprised that the top comment does not even acknowledge their existence.
- nix23 4y ago
  He said "we" maybe he thinks everyone here is from Arrakis or US?
  - newaccount2021 4y ago
    [dead]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
nix23 4y ago
So you fear you getting "warrants that will rip your life apart" just for using a program, and you think you don't life in a police state?
qzx_pierri 4y ago
We’d rather have it and not need it at the moment, versus needing it at the moment and not having it. In other words, persistent development at this early stage is about being proactive.
matheusmoreira 4y ago
> We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks. Maybe you don't. I expect my country will turn into such a state mere days from now. A communist president will assume power next year and I have no doubt he will regulate the press and the internet to extents I didn't think possible. There's also a judiciary dictatorship installed with supreme court judges openly persecuting right wing political parties. Tools like these will be absolutely vital for anyone exercising political or intellectual freedom.

ArneBab 4y ago

Just having a Freenet connection does not get a warrant — though there are researchers who use some fishy statistics which may be reason not to run a very fast node in the US (because running a fast node provably causes false positives in their statistics). For some more details, see https://freenetproject.org/the-discredited-levine-2017-approach-is-still-used.html https://freenetproject.org/the-discredited-levine-2017-appro... and the links therein.

sandworm101 4y ago
I think you might underestimate how easy it is to get a search warrant, paticularly in the US. This isnt the standard for arrest, let alone conviction. A cop saying "the machine regularly connected to a suspect network" is more than enough for many judges/magistrates... most of which dont know an IP from an IPA. (Lol, got over v underestimate mixed up.)
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
  Kyle Rittenhouse trial, the lawyer pinch zooming on an photo gallery on an iPhone and arguing its legit is all you need to know
  - boppo1 4y ago
    It's fascinating how bipartisan this issue is and how little people still seem to care.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  Can you provide examples?

FpUser 4y ago

>"We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks" The next statement below totally contradict the first one above. >"hat rep is so bad that if authorities ever look into your internet traffic, freenet connections are more than enough to get warrants that will rip your life apart." If mere internet traffic will "rip your life apart" - that is a police state in my book.

voakbasda 4y ago
> If mere internet traffic will "rip your life apart" - that is a police state in my book. Exactly. Anyone who thinks the US is not a police state has not been paying close enough attention, because the standard for getting a warrant is much lower than this. Moreover, cops will exaggerate the circumstances to get questionable warrants, and being served will absolutely ruin your day if not your life.

einpoklum 4y ago

> We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks. You may not, but many of us actually do. Naturally not every political opinion, and it depends on how you express it, but still. > At the moment, freenet has a bad reputation for hosting very illegal content. Why is that a bad reputation? Isn't that part of the point? ... Perhaps you mean unsavory, or immoral, or socially detrimental. > but dont be suprised if the cops pay closer attention to you Now that is a significant point in its disfavor, yes.

colechristensen 4y ago
Freenet is known for child abuse content, a topic so sensitive and disturbing people don’t want to even refer to it directly.
- ArneBab 4y ago
  These days you have to go actively searching to find such on Freenet. And as journalists proved multiple times¹, if you do go searching, you’ll find a lot more of it in the clearnet via forums accessible with Tor than in Freenet. And for the highest security in Freenet (the friend-to-friend mode), you need to have friends whom you trust not to go to lengths to spy on you — friends would be able to run statistical attacks if you transmit large amounts of known content. And such trusted friends are what people who want to access child abuse content do not have. ¹: Example (in German): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iItLpwkQMUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iItLpwkQMUQ
sandworm101 4y ago
I said illegal and meant exactly that. Morality and societal norms are debates for twitter and facebook. Tor/freenet/i2p are at another level of seriousness. Freenet has a rep for child abuse imagery.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- 4y ago

heavyset_go 4y ago

> We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks. Millions of people are in places where acknowledging that they want abortions[1] or miscarried[2] can pique the state's interest, along with people who are trans[3] or have trans kids[4]. We have police using web searches to prosecute women for abortion[1], we have states compiling lists of transgender individuals[3] and we have parents being investigated by the state because their kids were open about being trans[4]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/03/abortion-data-privacy-prosecution/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/03/abortio... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544 [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/12/14/texas-transgender-data-paxton/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/12/14/texas-trans... [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/09/23/texas-transgender-child-abuse-investigations/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/09/23/texas-tra...

Lanz 4y ago
[flagged]
- ww-picard-do 4y ago
  "Let the hate flow through you"
- JaimeThompson 4y ago
  How are you using "woke" here?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
sandworm101 4y ago
That is what Tor is for. If all you need is protection from authorities, Tor is enough. Freenet is content-focused, designed so that not even the original uploader can ever remove popular content. Tor protects people and speech from the police. Freenet protects files from everybody.

my_city 4y ago

>We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks. Try being a communist in America. You will get fired and your life ruined for your political opinions.

JodieBenitez 4y ago
Hey, try to be a social-nationalist anywhere, you'll probably even get jailed for your political opinions.
- tbrownaw 4y ago
  Fortunately most of the nationalists I know recognize the value of capitalism, and most of the socialists think globalization is a good idea.
  - mikrotikker 4y ago
    Globalism is destroying the environment.
- darthrupert 4y ago
  No, do not try to be a nazi. It's a horrible political philosophy.
  - JodieBenitez 4y ago
    Well, that was more like a rhetorical hypothesis. But I won't try to be a communist either.
tbrownaw 4y ago
It's been a few decades since McCarthy's house unamerican activities committee was a thing. These days you get people openly saying that capitalism is evil and major politicians insisting that ubi is the only way forward.
- 4y ago

jackmott 4y ago

Texas will take your children from you if they get a report that they are transexual

mikrotikker 4y ago
[flagged]
- prmoustache 4y ago
  Hmmm, not if they have reached age of consent which vary greatly between countries and possibly states and only if they perform said act. One kid/teenager could identify itself as hetero/bi/homo/whateversexual for example without having had sexual intercourses. Also I haven't seen parents being jailed in the countries I have lived in because their teenager were having sex regardless of the age of consent (excluding cases where said parents were actually involved in the act).
- LocalH 4y ago
  Congratulations, you just sent the parents of heterosexual kids to jail

bboygravity 4y ago

Ever heard of China?

ArneBab 4y ago
That’s where we don’t want to end up, because they actually have on-device spying on mobile devices via the IME (which the Freenet First Start wizard warns about to avoid giving a false sense of security). Something like the planned ChatControl,¹ but through a non-trustworthy third party most people have installed for convenience. Nothing can fully protect against that. ¹: https://chatcontrol.eu https://chatcontrol.eu

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

5e92cb50239222b 4y ago

You don't live in a police state. My Russian friends definitely do. You can easily get a large fine (on the order of 2 average monthly salaries), or 5-10 years in prison for stating your political opinion on the internet. There are many countries like that and I am not at all surprised that the top comment does not even acknowledge their existence.

nix23 4y ago
He said "we" maybe he thinks everyone here is from Arrakis or US?
- newaccount2021 4y ago
  [dead]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

nix23 4y ago

So you fear you getting "warrants that will rip your life apart" just for using a program, and you think you don't life in a police state?

qzx_pierri 4y ago

We’d rather have it and not need it at the moment, versus needing it at the moment and not having it. In other words, persistent development at this early stage is about being proactive.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

> We dont yet life in the police state where everyone's political opinions need to be hidden in dark networks. Maybe you don't. I expect my country will turn into such a state mere days from now. A communist president will assume power next year and I have no doubt he will regulate the press and the internet to extents I didn't think possible. There's also a judiciary dictatorship installed with supreme court judges openly persecuting right wing political parties. Tools like these will be absolutely vital for anyone exercising political or intellectual freedom.