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I'd add: > When babies are sleep-trained (with the "cry it out" method), they don't actually sleep (much) longer; they wake up as often but have learned to not

I'd add: > When babies are sleep-trained (with the "cry it out" method), they don't actually sleep (much) longer; they wake up as often but have learned to not signal their parents.

psychphysic 4y ago
Have they learned not to signal their parents? Or that their parents aren't interested in being there when they need them? For me I suspect most of this is regression to mean. People mostly try sleep training in a bad patch, meaning things are likely gonna get better anyways.
- VirusNewbie 4y ago
  >Have they learned not to signal their parents? Or that their parents aren't interested in being there when they need them? I assume this is not true, given that most (all?) sleep trained babies will still cry if they are sick, in distress, lose their pacifier or stuffed animal, etc. They just don’t cry out for help to get back to sleep.
klyrs 4y ago
Parents getting more sleep has knock-on benefits for the kid. It's hard not to be grumpy under the influence of a sleep deficit. I wake up several times a night. So does my kid. So if I wake up every time he wakes up, and every time I'd naturally wake up, then I don't get enough sleep. Self-care is crucial for caretakers, and I was a bit disappointed to not find any mention of that in the article.
- dr_orpheus 4y ago
  There is a mention of it in the article. Starts about 3/4 of the way through with the heading of "Family Fatigue": "Researchers tend to focus on sleep training's potential impact on babies – which makes sense, since they're the most vulnerable, helpless members of the family unit. But sleep training obviously affects the rest of the family, too..."
  - klyrs 4y ago
    ah, good, I guess I missed that.
    - TeMPOraL 4y ago
      What's worse, it's mostly dismissed. This is surprising, because it's arguably the most important factor - even the speculated negative effects of sleep training on child development pale in comparison to the negative effects of persistently sleep-deprived parents have on child short and long-term development.
unity1001 4y ago
> they wake up as often but have learned to not signal their parents To instinctively avoid signaling the predators in the absence of their parents as an evolutionary trait...
- jjulius 4y ago
  Still waiting on you to cite the source that proves this is why babies don't cry.

I'd add: > When babies are sleep-trained (with the "cry it out" method), they don't actually sleep (much) longer; they wake up as often but have learned to not signal their parents.

psychphysic 4y ago

Have they learned not to signal their parents? Or that their parents aren't interested in being there when they need them? For me I suspect most of this is regression to mean. People mostly try sleep training in a bad patch, meaning things are likely gonna get better anyways.

VirusNewbie 4y ago
>Have they learned not to signal their parents? Or that their parents aren't interested in being there when they need them? I assume this is not true, given that most (all?) sleep trained babies will still cry if they are sick, in distress, lose their pacifier or stuffed animal, etc. They just don’t cry out for help to get back to sleep.

klyrs 4y ago

Parents getting more sleep has knock-on benefits for the kid. It's hard not to be grumpy under the influence of a sleep deficit. I wake up several times a night. So does my kid. So if I wake up every time he wakes up, and every time I'd naturally wake up, then I don't get enough sleep. Self-care is crucial for caretakers, and I was a bit disappointed to not find any mention of that in the article.

dr_orpheus 4y ago
There is a mention of it in the article. Starts about 3/4 of the way through with the heading of "Family Fatigue": "Researchers tend to focus on sleep training's potential impact on babies – which makes sense, since they're the most vulnerable, helpless members of the family unit. But sleep training obviously affects the rest of the family, too..."
- klyrs 4y ago
  ah, good, I guess I missed that.
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    What's worse, it's mostly dismissed. This is surprising, because it's arguably the most important factor - even the speculated negative effects of sleep training on child development pale in comparison to the negative effects of persistently sleep-deprived parents have on child short and long-term development.

unity1001 4y ago

> they wake up as often but have learned to not signal their parents To instinctively avoid signaling the predators in the absence of their parents as an evolutionary trait...

jjulius 4y ago
Still waiting on you to cite the source that proves this is why babies don't cry.