> whether to include bugs killed in agriculture That's pretty extreme, have to say! Haha. There are extreme people everywhere, have to try and find the consens

> whether to include bugs killed in agriculture That's pretty extreme, have to say! Haha. There are extreme people everywhere, have to try and find the consensus, which to me seems to mean "no animals were involved in processing this thing" and that means from the source, gathering it, to the testing of it, to distributing it (don't use cows to transport my impossible burgers, please). People aren't animals b/c they can technically choose to do work (like picking coffee) - hopefully no one is supporting slavery. I think you can call yourself vegan if you eat clams for example if ethically sourced (tho I don't have any interest in doing so, b/c the farming is very harmful from my understanding - but if you go clamming yourself, maybe ok?). I personally eat honey, but always local, b/c idk what happens at the industrial scale there and I like to support local businesses anyway. Animal byproducts should not be "vegan" imo - like if you use fish something to filter your beer. No good. But no, I don't really look up if my sugar is vegan or my beer is vegan... but I know of "vegan brands" and I will get those first over other brands. I think veganism is basically becoming "no, I don't ask constantly... but I never knowingly buy animal products, and I know of several brands that are vegan, and I buy them when I can" - which makes a lot of sense to me, but isn't quite the clean definition! I even have some wool clothes I wear. Hopefully that can be done ethically, because it doesn't kill the sheep, but... lots of those farms are not great for the little guys :( Veganism to me is supporting the reduction in the use of animal products. We use animals too much, and we don't need to.