4 ms·

Right, you could. For example you could "prove" that masks work by citing a single hairdresser that didn't spread covid while wearing a mask and so dilute decad

Right, you could. For example you could "prove" that masks work by citing a single hairdresser that didn't spread covid while wearing a mask and so dilute decades of evidence against masks. Goes both ways, see? It's one thing to debate the effectiveness of something and quite an other to declare that the only/main reason for a certain stance is moral deficiency. Btw did you know that there were promising trails for using hcq against sars cov 1 and even hiv? https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(06)70361-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... Turns out HCQ has antiviral properties. Hmmmm.

ummonk 4y ago
There have been large scale controlled studies on masking (via recommending mask usage, sending masks, etc. to a randomly selected group of villages / districts). They showed that masking has a moderate effect on COVID spread.
- schlafschaf 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ummonk 4y ago
    It showed that masks worked. Unscientific people with an agenda then sliced and diced it into smaller subgroups (such as purple masks) where there was insufficient statistical power to consistently show whether masks worked for all the subgroups.
  - peter422 4y ago
    The HCQ guys are condemned because it's been proven over and over again not to work and they ignore reality, give people bad advice which costs lives. Also I'm pretty sure no doctors or the government recommend that people be overweight. You can both be a healthy weight and take prevention measures that actually work (vaccines, paxlovid for those >50). It's not one or the other.
- themaninthedark 4y ago
  At the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic but after the announcement that was made to "prevent a paucity of masks for health care workers", there were several studies that came out showing how masks were ineffective! The methodology of course was to get someone with COVID, put a mask on them and them have them cough into a petri dish. Then check the dis to see if COVID was present, it was so obviously masks were bad. The science had spoken. These studies were posed all over the place including HN as proof that you didn't need masks. Then a little while later, someone changed their mind or something and all of a sudden we all needed masks, even homemade cloth ones would do. Or even a bandana on your face. The point is that if there is a political will, science will be made up to support or debunk it. Which is bad for science and society in general. I have no idea about HCQ or it's usefulness but I have a feeling that if it had a different political backing then we might be talking about HCQ deniers instead of HCQ conspiracy supporters because we had the same thing with masks.
  - peter422 4y ago
    Are you aware that things have changed in the last two and a half years? The CDC has been talking about the limitations of cloth masks for over a year! If you want to be upset at the lack of perfect guidance initially, fine, but don't pretend it's still that way.
    - themaninthedark 4y ago
      I am aware that cloth masks are now no longer recommended and the limitations of them. I was aware of their limitations from the beginning, not in specifics but from a general understanding point of view. I am not upset at the lack of "perfect guidance". I am angry that we were lied to by top people who should have known better and I am saddened that we have a large cadre of scientists who are willing to spin and twist data to fit political winds in order to push a narrative. My overall point is that initially, when there was political will to limit general public use of masks, the messaging was that masks were ineffective. We had studies and science to back that up. Once the political message changed, all those studies and science were thrown out and new studies and science were brought in to back it up. The parent and context of this is to show how studies and science is not pure and has been bent to political will to back the prevailing attitude of the time. Down thread a commenter is talking about how "It showed that masks worked. Unscientific people with an agenda then sliced and diced it", that shows a lack of understanding of the situation where everyone(including/especially scientists) is playing games and it hurts us all. So when the political attitude says that HCQ is bad and not helpful for COVID and then we have a mountain of evidence and studies that show that, it is hard for someone who is trying to pay attention to really understand if it is harmful or not because of how political everything is. Please note that I have no opinion on HCQ myself. I have not taken it not nor do I plan on seeking it out if I get COVID as I think we already have other therapeutics that will work.

ummonk 4y ago

There have been large scale controlled studies on masking (via recommending mask usage, sending masks, etc. to a randomly selected group of villages / districts). They showed that masking has a moderate effect on COVID spread.

schlafschaf 4y ago
[flagged]
- ummonk 4y ago
  It showed that masks worked. Unscientific people with an agenda then sliced and diced it into smaller subgroups (such as purple masks) where there was insufficient statistical power to consistently show whether masks worked for all the subgroups.
- peter422 4y ago
  The HCQ guys are condemned because it's been proven over and over again not to work and they ignore reality, give people bad advice which costs lives. Also I'm pretty sure no doctors or the government recommend that people be overweight. You can both be a healthy weight and take prevention measures that actually work (vaccines, paxlovid for those >50). It's not one or the other.
themaninthedark 4y ago
At the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic but after the announcement that was made to "prevent a paucity of masks for health care workers", there were several studies that came out showing how masks were ineffective! The methodology of course was to get someone with COVID, put a mask on them and them have them cough into a petri dish. Then check the dis to see if COVID was present, it was so obviously masks were bad. The science had spoken. These studies were posed all over the place including HN as proof that you didn't need masks. Then a little while later, someone changed their mind or something and all of a sudden we all needed masks, even homemade cloth ones would do. Or even a bandana on your face. The point is that if there is a political will, science will be made up to support or debunk it. Which is bad for science and society in general. I have no idea about HCQ or it's usefulness but I have a feeling that if it had a different political backing then we might be talking about HCQ deniers instead of HCQ conspiracy supporters because we had the same thing with masks.
- peter422 4y ago
  Are you aware that things have changed in the last two and a half years? The CDC has been talking about the limitations of cloth masks for over a year! If you want to be upset at the lack of perfect guidance initially, fine, but don't pretend it's still that way.
  - themaninthedark 4y ago
    I am aware that cloth masks are now no longer recommended and the limitations of them. I was aware of their limitations from the beginning, not in specifics but from a general understanding point of view. I am not upset at the lack of "perfect guidance". I am angry that we were lied to by top people who should have known better and I am saddened that we have a large cadre of scientists who are willing to spin and twist data to fit political winds in order to push a narrative. My overall point is that initially, when there was political will to limit general public use of masks, the messaging was that masks were ineffective. We had studies and science to back that up. Once the political message changed, all those studies and science were thrown out and new studies and science were brought in to back it up. The parent and context of this is to show how studies and science is not pure and has been bent to political will to back the prevailing attitude of the time. Down thread a commenter is talking about how "It showed that masks worked. Unscientific people with an agenda then sliced and diced it", that shows a lack of understanding of the situation where everyone(including/especially scientists) is playing games and it hurts us all. So when the political attitude says that HCQ is bad and not helpful for COVID and then we have a mountain of evidence and studies that show that, it is hard for someone who is trying to pay attention to really understand if it is harmful or not because of how political everything is. Please note that I have no opinion on HCQ myself. I have not taken it not nor do I plan on seeking it out if I get COVID as I think we already have other therapeutics that will work.