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The nice thing about Pelé is that he was by all account an all around nice guy and remained a positive influence right until death. You can't say the same about

by Bayart 4y ago

The nice thing about Pelé is that he was by all account an all around nice guy and remained a positive influence right until death. You can't say the same about Maradona who will be remembered perhaps more for cheating and dying a fat cokehead than for his ball carrying.

mym1990 4y ago
No need for the comparison, few will ever know the weight that some of these icons carry, the people they are surrounded by who change the course of their lives, for better or for worse. Maradona was no saint or role model, but this is a celebration of what Pelé was able to accomplish.
- Bayart 4y ago
  I'm making the comparison because the comparison was made for decades. Pelé versus Maradona is the original GOAT wars.
  - philippejara 4y ago
    Many comparisons were made for decades, that doesn't mean you should bring it up unprompted during the announcement of the death of one of the subjects purely to disparage the other side. If you want to honor pele, act as he would, instead of using his death as another opportunity to bring up what was effectively an old timers console war.
nextaccountic 4y ago
> an all around nice guy I hate to be that guy, but.. he had a daughter that he didn't want to recognize, Sandra, she had to sue him (she did prove he was her father, but ended up receiving no money. she however could use his surname) She also died of cancer, just like he died today, but back in 2006. Not even after she died he would show up - he sent flowers through his company, so.. that's not my definition of an all around nice guy That's also not a man that somehow didn't want children. He also had 6 other children that he treated just fine. How would you live knowing that your father rejects you, but not your brothers and sisters?
- diegoholiveira 4y ago
  So, one mistake is all is needed to fade away all other great things he did?
  - gameman144 4y ago
    I honestly don't have any horse in this race: Pelé probably was an all-around great guy. To call a lifetime of ignoring your child "one mistake" feels like a mischaracterization, though. It might not even be considered a bad thing, but it's definitely an ongoing decision. As an analogy, I eat meat. Future generations might see that as immoral. It's definitely not a mistake I made one time, though, it's an ongoing choice that I'm making repeatedly over the course of my life.
    - diegoholiveira 4y ago
      A mistake is required to be a “one time thing”? There’s no “continues mistake”? I do believe he’s super wrong on this subject, but not even for a moment I consider him as a bad person because of that.
      - osrec 4y ago
        You are more forgiving than a lot of people. I know very little about football or Pele, but this particular "mistake" seems like a biggie. It's like you be a nice guy 99.9% of the time, but in the remaining percent you murder someone. All your niceness is nullified by your single action.
      - optymizer 4y ago
        It's not like he forgot to tip the waitress. He rejected his own daughter. How would you like it if your father actively tried to ignore your existence? Have some empathy for a fellow human being. It's horrible behavior, regardless of Pele's fame.
    - psychphysic 4y ago
      It's a bit weird though, I can't imagine disowning a child but why not? People put kids up for adoption. It's really weird to insist on using your biological father's surname if they disown you.
andrepd 4y ago
>You can't say the same about Maradona who will be remembered perhaps more for cheating and dying a fat cokehead than for his ball carrying. Despite him being a scumbag in many aspects of the personal life, this is way off the mark. He is one of the all time GOATs and his adoration in Argentina borders on the fanatical.
- the_af 4y ago
  Seconded. Here in Argentina Maradona is (was?) a highly polarizing celebrity, and of course has detractors, but his admirers are multitude and he is worshipped as a person, not just as a soccer player. It's absolutely not true that he is widely remembered as a scumbag; some people of course do, others acknowledge that he struggled with drugs all of his life but he came from humble beginnings and never forgot nor reneged on this, and many call him D10S (a play on Spanish "dios" and the number 10 he wore on his t-shirt). That's not the mark of someone widely remembered as a scumbag.
  - Izikiel43 4y ago
    It really depends on who you ask in Argentina, he was a very divisive figure. Sports wise, he was a genius. As a person? He was a total asshole.
    - the_af 4y ago
      Yes, that's what I said. Divisive. By no means true that he is widely considered a scumbag, since a vast number of Argies idolize him as a person. Remember that's the argument I'm responding to, that outside the soccer field Maradona's legacy is that of a scumbag. That's simply untrue.
    - askesum 4y ago
      One of few great players whos personality match their ability as a player.
101008 4y ago
[flagged]
- Izikiel43 4y ago
  I’m from Argentina, and I think for the people of my generation (90s onwards) the image we have of el Diego is that he was a cheating fat coke head who supported all the wrong politicians, and left us with an infinite amount of memes and phrases, mostly related to cocaine. My parents generation will probably have a different feel about the guy, as they saw him in all his glorious days, whereas we only knew his decadent state.
- augusto-moura 4y ago
  Messi is light years better of a person. If anything people should think of him as the greatest Argentinian player of all time
- Bayart 4y ago
  During the final we played like utter rubbish for 80 minutes, I don't see what Messi's got to do with it.
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't take HN threads into flamewar hell. (I realize the GP was provocative and this is a passionate topic, but the solution cannot be to drive further to the hellpits) https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
m000 4y ago
If you want to do Pelé any favours, I would stick with the ball carrying. Outside ball carrying, at least to me, Maradona was much more admirable because he remained unapologetically himself. Pelé on the other hand, eventually became a salesman of his own image: a permanent smile on his face, always talking in platitudes to keep everyone happy, fully aligned with his (not so innocent) FIFA bosses.
- boredemployee 4y ago
  Imho that's not entirely true. Pelé used his own image to try to make Brazil a better place to his people and to contribute to the sport, sometimes even in a naive and childish way. He certainly wasn't a perfect person, with controversial attitudes throughout his life, but let's remember that he had humble beginnings like many black poor boys in Brazil whose destiny was to starve and, at least publicly, he always acted as a citizen of the world trying to sell a good image from Brazil. he was never involved in drugs.

by Bayart 4y ago

mym1990 4y ago

No need for the comparison, few will ever know the weight that some of these icons carry, the people they are surrounded by who change the course of their lives, for better or for worse. Maradona was no saint or role model, but this is a celebration of what Pelé was able to accomplish.

Bayart 4y ago
I'm making the comparison because the comparison was made for decades. Pelé versus Maradona is the original GOAT wars.
- philippejara 4y ago
  Many comparisons were made for decades, that doesn't mean you should bring it up unprompted during the announcement of the death of one of the subjects purely to disparage the other side. If you want to honor pele, act as he would, instead of using his death as another opportunity to bring up what was effectively an old timers console war.

nextaccountic 4y ago

> an all around nice guy I hate to be that guy, but.. he had a daughter that he didn't want to recognize, Sandra, she had to sue him (she did prove he was her father, but ended up receiving no money. she however could use his surname) She also died of cancer, just like he died today, but back in 2006. Not even after she died he would show up - he sent flowers through his company, so.. that's not my definition of an all around nice guy That's also not a man that somehow didn't want children. He also had 6 other children that he treated just fine. How would you live knowing that your father rejects you, but not your brothers and sisters?

diegoholiveira 4y ago
So, one mistake is all is needed to fade away all other great things he did?
- gameman144 4y ago
  I honestly don't have any horse in this race: Pelé probably was an all-around great guy. To call a lifetime of ignoring your child "one mistake" feels like a mischaracterization, though. It might not even be considered a bad thing, but it's definitely an ongoing decision. As an analogy, I eat meat. Future generations might see that as immoral. It's definitely not a mistake I made one time, though, it's an ongoing choice that I'm making repeatedly over the course of my life.
  - diegoholiveira 4y ago
    A mistake is required to be a “one time thing”? There’s no “continues mistake”? I do believe he’s super wrong on this subject, but not even for a moment I consider him as a bad person because of that.
    - osrec 4y ago
      You are more forgiving than a lot of people. I know very little about football or Pele, but this particular "mistake" seems like a biggie. It's like you be a nice guy 99.9% of the time, but in the remaining percent you murder someone. All your niceness is nullified by your single action.
    - optymizer 4y ago
      It's not like he forgot to tip the waitress. He rejected his own daughter. How would you like it if your father actively tried to ignore your existence? Have some empathy for a fellow human being. It's horrible behavior, regardless of Pele's fame.
  - psychphysic 4y ago
    It's a bit weird though, I can't imagine disowning a child but why not? People put kids up for adoption. It's really weird to insist on using your biological father's surname if they disown you.

andrepd 4y ago

>You can't say the same about Maradona who will be remembered perhaps more for cheating and dying a fat cokehead than for his ball carrying. Despite him being a scumbag in many aspects of the personal life, this is way off the mark. He is one of the all time GOATs and his adoration in Argentina borders on the fanatical.

the_af 4y ago
Seconded. Here in Argentina Maradona is (was?) a highly polarizing celebrity, and of course has detractors, but his admirers are multitude and he is worshipped as a person, not just as a soccer player. It's absolutely not true that he is widely remembered as a scumbag; some people of course do, others acknowledge that he struggled with drugs all of his life but he came from humble beginnings and never forgot nor reneged on this, and many call him D10S (a play on Spanish "dios" and the number 10 he wore on his t-shirt). That's not the mark of someone widely remembered as a scumbag.
- Izikiel43 4y ago
  It really depends on who you ask in Argentina, he was a very divisive figure. Sports wise, he was a genius. As a person? He was a total asshole.
  - the_af 4y ago
    Yes, that's what I said. Divisive. By no means true that he is widely considered a scumbag, since a vast number of Argies idolize him as a person. Remember that's the argument I'm responding to, that outside the soccer field Maradona's legacy is that of a scumbag. That's simply untrue.
  - askesum 4y ago
    One of few great players whos personality match their ability as a player.

101008 4y ago

[flagged]

Izikiel43 4y ago
I’m from Argentina, and I think for the people of my generation (90s onwards) the image we have of el Diego is that he was a cheating fat coke head who supported all the wrong politicians, and left us with an infinite amount of memes and phrases, mostly related to cocaine. My parents generation will probably have a different feel about the guy, as they saw him in all his glorious days, whereas we only knew his decadent state.
augusto-moura 4y ago
Messi is light years better of a person. If anything people should think of him as the greatest Argentinian player of all time
Bayart 4y ago
During the final we played like utter rubbish for 80 minutes, I don't see what Messi's got to do with it.
dang 4y ago
Please don't take HN threads into flamewar hell. (I realize the GP was provocative and this is a passionate topic, but the solution cannot be to drive further to the hellpits) https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

m000 4y ago

If you want to do Pelé any favours, I would stick with the ball carrying. Outside ball carrying, at least to me, Maradona was much more admirable because he remained unapologetically himself. Pelé on the other hand, eventually became a salesman of his own image: a permanent smile on his face, always talking in platitudes to keep everyone happy, fully aligned with his (not so innocent) FIFA bosses.

boredemployee 4y ago
Imho that's not entirely true. Pelé used his own image to try to make Brazil a better place to his people and to contribute to the sport, sometimes even in a naive and childish way. He certainly wasn't a perfect person, with controversial attitudes throughout his life, but let's remember that he had humble beginnings like many black poor boys in Brazil whose destiny was to starve and, at least publicly, he always acted as a citizen of the world trying to sell a good image from Brazil. he was never involved in drugs.