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"As a genderqueer queer Korean I have always experienced violence going through security. So this is an added factor I am always aware of whenever I do anything

"As a genderqueer queer Korean I have always experienced violence going through security. So this is an added factor I am always aware of whenever I do anything against the current. Sometimes I have to weigh the violence of my data being harvested from me against the violence of harassment (physical, verbal, and mental)." I've never seen such a liberal definition of violence.

quinnjh 4y ago
Im sympathetic to the authors experience of feeling scrutinized due to gender, but it strikes me as odd that opting out of what tiktok and instagram do to others constantly is a hill they feel is worth dying on. If data collection is violence, then walking 30 feet in any major city of USA or S Korea must be ... debilitating.. for me that requires that i calibrate my definitions of violence to allow me to peacefully continue forward in our brave new world. The alternative they suggest where we all "resist" as much as possible seems difficult to get buy in on. Its like a prisoners dilemma where most people will opt for "dont resist/ get through customs quicker"
- BenFranklin100 4y ago
  Stretching the meaning of words or phrases for pejorative effect is a common rhetorical tactic of activists and politicians. See Lee Atwater’s infamous 1981 interview where he described how ‘school busing’ became a stand-in for a common 1960s racial slur, or more recently, how the term ‘racist’ has became so diluted it can now be applied to nearly anything.
xen2xen1 4y ago
The left has learned well that changing definitions that make everything look and sound worse is a very good ploy, and works very well.
- feet 4y ago
  >intentional use of physical force or power, threatened[2] or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence
  - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
    This part specifically "violence of my data being harvested from me" Biometrics are not cool but a photo is not violent
    - feet 4y ago
      Collection of biometrics within a power-imbalanced relationship can be used to suppress and discriminate against groups of people which results in deprivation. Saying it's just a photo takes the entire thing out of context
      - Beltalowda 4y ago
        By this definition all of airplane security is violent. In, fact, all forms of security are. Actually, all forms of "someone being in charge" is.
- siquick 4y ago
  Let’s not pretend that both sides of the coin don’t do exactly the same thing.
- mindslight 4y ago
  I think you mean "social media addicts" in general - don't forget about "lockdown", "stop the steal", "assassination coordinates", etc. With shallow communication, inducing as much emotional impact as possible is unfortunately a winning strategy. Specifically here, when talking about a situation designed around individual agents readily exercising autocratic power including physical violence, the word "violence" doesn't seem like that much of a stretch. Very few people would choose to voluntarily unpack everything in their bags in a public place, for a stranger to look over. Pointing out the coercion based on implied violence from someone standing over you is actually the standard libertarian critique of government.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    > "lockdown" How exactly was that word's definition twisted? Not being allowed outside like in <https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-arrested-park-throwing-ball-daughter-due/story?id=70032966 https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-arrested-park-throw...> seems perfectly in line with Merriam-Webster's definition 2b of it.
    - mindslight 4y ago
      The M-W definition 2b is from Covid, so it's not indicative. Re the article, it seems Mooney was legally in the right, which actually supports my point. So the story is really just about bog standard power tripping cops, and their general unaccountibility (did Mooney pursue and win his lawsuit? More critically, did the overstepping, needlessly violent, and needlessly covid-spreading cops ever suffer any repercussions for their behavior? good luck...) "Lockdown" implies that you yourself are locked down like definition 2a - ie stuck in your home. Some countries did this, and we're all familiar with the stories of apartment building doors welded shut in China. But the US overwhelmingly had stay at home suggestions. As far as I can tell, it was only a few counties in California that had bona fide stay at home orders. A lot of people thought the suggestions had the force of law, but they did not. And I wasn't going to correct them - that combination was the best we could have hoped for. Ultimately, the term "lockdown" is a motte and bailey term where the motte is evoking totalitarianism like China, with a fall back to defenses like "the paint was 'locked down' at Home Depot as it was deemed non-essential". I agree there were a lot of things that were closed that shouldn't have been. Other things were legitimately closed. And many things were closed with a crude justification, which was never reexamined or redefined with nuance. Collapsing it all to a singular hyperbolic narrative of "lockdown" ultimately just played on people's frustration with the existence of the pandemic, and made it difficult to have nuanced discussions about what were reasonable restrictions and what were not.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dangus 4y ago
  How do you know this individual is a member of "the left?" Did they show their membership card?
  - richbell 4y ago
    > How do you know this individual is a member of "the left?" Did they show their membership card? A cursory glance of their posts makes it pretty obvious that they wouldn't be the type to vote Republican. I'd be willing to put money on that, and I'm not a betting man.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - dangus 4y ago
      You don’t have to be very far left to not vote for Republicans. So strange that not many members of marginalized groups vote for the party whose only discernible platform is harming marginalized groups.
dangus 4y ago
Some dictionary definitions of violence from Merriam Webster: 2: injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : OUTRAGE 3a: intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force the violence of the storm b: vehement feeling or expression : FERVOR also: an instance of such action or feeling c: a clashing or jarring quality : DISCORDANCE Maybe the choice of language is strong but I don't think the word is being used incorrectly.
- richbell 4y ago
  > Maybe the choice of language is strong but I don't think the word is being used incorrectly. My gripe is that it's manipulative rhetoric. The term "violence" evokes very specific meaning to the average person, physical violence, and describing non-physical actions and concepts as "violence" is an attempt to manipulate people emotionally. If someone told you they were subject to violence at the airport would you really assume anything except physical assault or intimidation? I have seen countless examples of activists calling speech they don't like "violence", "anti-blackness", or a myriad of other buzzwords — and I am talking about mild disagreements or asking for proof, not anything near hate-speech, bigotry, or promoting violence. It's a deliberate tactic to garner sympathy and support, and I do not like how normalized its use has become.
  - dangus 4y ago
    How is it manipulative? What is this person trying to manipulate us into believing? They're just saying that authorities tend to give them a hard time more frequently than more conventionally accepted groups, which doesn't sound like much of a stretch to me.
  - FrontierPsych 4y ago
    I went to a hotel, and they had the softest down mattresses and $4,000 pillows and $8,000 softest sheets and $15,000 blankets. I thought this was extreme violence to make me feel so non-violent and comfortable, because after all, the United States of America is violent against every other person in the world,even their own citizens, so my supreme comfort was violence as they made me feel comfortable to forget how violent the world and the USA is. My being the most comfortable and the most safe I've ever been is the most extreme violence that the USA can do to me.
g8oz 4y ago
"If everything is “violent,” nothing really is. If every slight is “oppression,” nothing is." -- Building Resilient Organizations https://forgeorganizing.org/article/building-resilient-organizations https://forgeorganizing.org/article/building-resilient-organ...
bentobean 4y ago
Exactly. I was sympathetic with the author until it suddenly turned into “the white man is oppressing me.” Blah, blah, blah - whatever.
richbell 4y ago
The author also has a thread explaining why North Korea isn't culpable for any of its aggression and the U.S is entirely at fault. I understand hating the American Empire (as it's often called), but that's an interesting take. https://mas.to/@ykhong/109587365772866279 https://mas.to/@ykhong/109587365772866279 Edit: they also seem to have an Instagram where they post things like "anti-asian violence is white violence/supremacy" (https://www.instagram.com/p/CMhakCoAA9q/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CMhakCoAA9q/). My point being they seem to be a professional at finding interesting or contentious topics and burying the lede.

quinnjh 4y ago

Im sympathetic to the authors experience of feeling scrutinized due to gender, but it strikes me as odd that opting out of what tiktok and instagram do to others constantly is a hill they feel is worth dying on. If data collection is violence, then walking 30 feet in any major city of USA or S Korea must be ... debilitating.. for me that requires that i calibrate my definitions of violence to allow me to peacefully continue forward in our brave new world. The alternative they suggest where we all "resist" as much as possible seems difficult to get buy in on. Its like a prisoners dilemma where most people will opt for "dont resist/ get through customs quicker"

BenFranklin100 4y ago
Stretching the meaning of words or phrases for pejorative effect is a common rhetorical tactic of activists and politicians. See Lee Atwater’s infamous 1981 interview where he described how ‘school busing’ became a stand-in for a common 1960s racial slur, or more recently, how the term ‘racist’ has became so diluted it can now be applied to nearly anything.

xen2xen1 4y ago

The left has learned well that changing definitions that make everything look and sound worse is a very good ploy, and works very well.

feet 4y ago
>intentional use of physical force or power, threatened[2] or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
  This part specifically "violence of my data being harvested from me" Biometrics are not cool but a photo is not violent
  - feet 4y ago
    Collection of biometrics within a power-imbalanced relationship can be used to suppress and discriminate against groups of people which results in deprivation. Saying it's just a photo takes the entire thing out of context
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      By this definition all of airplane security is violent. In, fact, all forms of security are. Actually, all forms of "someone being in charge" is.
siquick 4y ago
Let’s not pretend that both sides of the coin don’t do exactly the same thing.
mindslight 4y ago
I think you mean "social media addicts" in general - don't forget about "lockdown", "stop the steal", "assassination coordinates", etc. With shallow communication, inducing as much emotional impact as possible is unfortunately a winning strategy. Specifically here, when talking about a situation designed around individual agents readily exercising autocratic power including physical violence, the word "violence" doesn't seem like that much of a stretch. Very few people would choose to voluntarily unpack everything in their bags in a public place, for a stranger to look over. Pointing out the coercion based on implied violence from someone standing over you is actually the standard libertarian critique of government.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > "lockdown" How exactly was that word's definition twisted? Not being allowed outside like in <https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-arrested-park-throwing-ball-daughter-due/story?id=70032966 https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-arrested-park-throw...> seems perfectly in line with Merriam-Webster's definition 2b of it.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    The M-W definition 2b is from Covid, so it's not indicative. Re the article, it seems Mooney was legally in the right, which actually supports my point. So the story is really just about bog standard power tripping cops, and their general unaccountibility (did Mooney pursue and win his lawsuit? More critically, did the overstepping, needlessly violent, and needlessly covid-spreading cops ever suffer any repercussions for their behavior? good luck...) "Lockdown" implies that you yourself are locked down like definition 2a - ie stuck in your home. Some countries did this, and we're all familiar with the stories of apartment building doors welded shut in China. But the US overwhelmingly had stay at home suggestions. As far as I can tell, it was only a few counties in California that had bona fide stay at home orders. A lot of people thought the suggestions had the force of law, but they did not. And I wasn't going to correct them - that combination was the best we could have hoped for. Ultimately, the term "lockdown" is a motte and bailey term where the motte is evoking totalitarianism like China, with a fall back to defenses like "the paint was 'locked down' at Home Depot as it was deemed non-essential". I agree there were a lot of things that were closed that shouldn't have been. Other things were legitimately closed. And many things were closed with a crude justification, which was never reexamined or redefined with nuance. Collapsing it all to a singular hyperbolic narrative of "lockdown" ultimately just played on people's frustration with the existence of the pandemic, and made it difficult to have nuanced discussions about what were reasonable restrictions and what were not.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dangus 4y ago
How do you know this individual is a member of "the left?" Did they show their membership card?
- richbell 4y ago
  > How do you know this individual is a member of "the left?" Did they show their membership card? A cursory glance of their posts makes it pretty obvious that they wouldn't be the type to vote Republican. I'd be willing to put money on that, and I'm not a betting man.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dangus 4y ago
    You don’t have to be very far left to not vote for Republicans. So strange that not many members of marginalized groups vote for the party whose only discernible platform is harming marginalized groups.

dangus 4y ago

Some dictionary definitions of violence from Merriam Webster: 2: injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : OUTRAGE 3a: intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force the violence of the storm b: vehement feeling or expression : FERVOR also: an instance of such action or feeling c: a clashing or jarring quality : DISCORDANCE Maybe the choice of language is strong but I don't think the word is being used incorrectly.

richbell 4y ago
> Maybe the choice of language is strong but I don't think the word is being used incorrectly. My gripe is that it's manipulative rhetoric. The term "violence" evokes very specific meaning to the average person, physical violence, and describing non-physical actions and concepts as "violence" is an attempt to manipulate people emotionally. If someone told you they were subject to violence at the airport would you really assume anything except physical assault or intimidation? I have seen countless examples of activists calling speech they don't like "violence", "anti-blackness", or a myriad of other buzzwords — and I am talking about mild disagreements or asking for proof, not anything near hate-speech, bigotry, or promoting violence. It's a deliberate tactic to garner sympathy and support, and I do not like how normalized its use has become.
- dangus 4y ago
  How is it manipulative? What is this person trying to manipulate us into believing? They're just saying that authorities tend to give them a hard time more frequently than more conventionally accepted groups, which doesn't sound like much of a stretch to me.
- FrontierPsych 4y ago
  I went to a hotel, and they had the softest down mattresses and $4,000 pillows and $8,000 softest sheets and $15,000 blankets. I thought this was extreme violence to make me feel so non-violent and comfortable, because after all, the United States of America is violent against every other person in the world,even their own citizens, so my supreme comfort was violence as they made me feel comfortable to forget how violent the world and the USA is. My being the most comfortable and the most safe I've ever been is the most extreme violence that the USA can do to me.

g8oz 4y ago

"If everything is “violent,” nothing really is. If every slight is “oppression,” nothing is." -- Building Resilient Organizations https://forgeorganizing.org/article/building-resilient-organizations https://forgeorganizing.org/article/building-resilient-organ...

bentobean 4y ago

Exactly. I was sympathetic with the author until it suddenly turned into “the white man is oppressing me.” Blah, blah, blah - whatever.

richbell 4y ago

The author also has a thread explaining why North Korea isn't culpable for any of its aggression and the U.S is entirely at fault. I understand hating the American Empire (as it's often called), but that's an interesting take. https://mas.to/@ykhong/109587365772866279 https://mas.to/@ykhong/109587365772866279 Edit: they also seem to have an Instagram where they post things like "anti-asian violence is white violence/supremacy" (https://www.instagram.com/p/CMhakCoAA9q/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CMhakCoAA9q/). My point being they seem to be a professional at finding interesting or contentious topics and burying the lede.