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My parents' generation (in the UK) were physically beaten as children. It was a normal part of parenting and part of school. My hope is that one day we will co

My parents' generation (in the UK) were physically beaten as children. It was a normal part of parenting and part of school. My hope is that one day we will consider this emotionally abusive behaviour as seriously as we we now look at physical abuse. Though I don't hold out much hope. Especially as there are still some people holding out for the right to hit their children even now.

vmilner 4y ago
My Uk school was still doing collective punishment beatings (“Who spoke?” (No-one replies) (30 boys get caned) ) in the early 80s.
- aaomidi 4y ago
  Physical punishment is still legal in school & home in ton of US states.
  - jasonfarnon 4y ago
    It is legal in every home of the US. It is legal in many states' public schools. We were spanked in Houston public schools through the 90s. And it was a lot milder than what my cousins in Calcutta got. Good stuff.
    - Tams80 4y ago
      If I recall correctly, it was illegal by the 90s in the UK. That didn't stop the odd occasion of it happening. The cane remained on the wall as a relic, but there was always a handy slipper around.
- pc86 4y ago
  Abuse in a school setting 40+ years ago is not all that surprising.
  - vmilner 4y ago
    I think early 80s is when it becomes tricky to _legally_ beat kids in schools in the uk. I suspect collective punishment was actually illegal long before that but it wasn’t tested in courts.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  Well has it worked? Have you knifed anyone?
  - dijksterhuis 4y ago
    You cannot say “well you probably haven’t done this one, specific, highly unlikely thing for someone in the UK to do. So yeah caning probably worked, right!” I haven’t knived anyone. I was never caned at school. The absence of someone doing a thing is not proof of a thing doing what you believe it does.
  - DieAgainAli 4y ago
    You act like ‘back in my day’ there wasn’t any crime. If you look at murder rates in the UK they peaked in the early 2000’s. Maybe those abused boys were taught violence is the answer? Letting your baby ‘cry it out’ is abuse in my eyes and you can sleep train them without doing this. With my daughter we soothed her in her cot instead of picking her up. She will now link her sleep cycles and only cry when there is something wrong
    - LAC-Tech 4y ago
      Glad to see the UK is past their murder rate peak - what's the rate now, merely double what it was in 50s or the Edwardian Era?
      - talideon 4y ago
        The murder rate in the UK tracked the presence of environmental lead from things like paint, leaded petrol, &. The murder rate in the UK is now trending towards what it was in the Edwardian period, when it was introduced. Beating children doesn't make them obedient and law-abiding adults.
    - wolpoli 4y ago
      > If you look at murder rates in the UK they peaked in the early 2000’s. Maybe those abused boys were taught violence is the answer? There were earlier HN posts attributing the decline in the rate of murder rate/violence crime to countries phasing out lead-gasoline. Now we might never know unless we do a properly controlled experiment.
sanderjd 4y ago
Comparing a 9-month-old spending 15 minutes calming themselves down before falling asleep to physical abuse is laughably absurd. A big problem with this "debate" is that people conjure images of newborn babies being left to cry for hours, when what is actually predominantly practiced is older infants 6-12 months old being allowed to cry for less than half an hour. After being fed and given a clean diaper and a safe place to sleep, being rocked to sleep just isn't a "need" for an older infant; they are crying because they want to be soothed to sleep. And it's fine to do that if you want to as a parent (which pretty much all parents do!), but it's also fine for them to learn to soothe themselves instead. It isn't "emotional abuse".
- aaomidi 4y ago
  Yeah…cause they’re human and as the parent you’re their only human interaction. Why is them wanting to be soothed seen as a bad thing? Like, what the fuck do we think these babies are actively scheming to find ways to get soothed? I swear our brains are looking for adversaries in infants now. Your infant child can not manipulate you. The brains barely understand action and consequence. Your infant child is trying to communicate its needs, and having it unmet with indifference is honestly hilariously sad.
  - gregoriol 4y ago
    What if it is part of learning?
  - sanderjd 4y ago
    It's not a bad thing, just like it's not bad for a baby to want to be spoon-fed. But part of growing up is learning new skills, like eating by themselves and soothing themselves to sleep. And a big part of parenting is figuring out the right times and ways to encourage this. You know what has been a far more traumatic growing experience for every kid I've known than learning to sleep independently? Learning to use a toilet. Way more tears, way more "emotional trauma", but it's all part of growing up. > I swear our brains are looking for adversaries in infants now. Also, sleep training is not some new-agey thing that we've just concocted out of a recent adversarial parenting trend; if anything it's exactly the opposite, it is the focus on "attachment" and concern over the impact of things like sleep training that is the newer trend.
somrand0 4y ago
well yea, because your parents were essentially slaves, the property of higher elite classes. I'm pointing to the class relationship, nothing specific to your parents. I wonder if such practices were used in schools reserved for royalty and other nobles in the UK
- dijksterhuis 4y ago
  It’s well known that “elite” schools such as Eton also used physical punishment in a similar manner.
0xEFF 4y ago
Is it emotionally abusive to ignore a child's hours long temper tantrum after they're told they can't have ice cream for dinner?

vmilner 4y ago

My Uk school was still doing collective punishment beatings (“Who spoke?” (No-one replies) (30 boys get caned) ) in the early 80s.

aaomidi 4y ago
Physical punishment is still legal in school & home in ton of US states.
- jasonfarnon 4y ago
  It is legal in every home of the US. It is legal in many states' public schools. We were spanked in Houston public schools through the 90s. And it was a lot milder than what my cousins in Calcutta got. Good stuff.
  - Tams80 4y ago
    If I recall correctly, it was illegal by the 90s in the UK. That didn't stop the odd occasion of it happening. The cane remained on the wall as a relic, but there was always a handy slipper around.
pc86 4y ago
Abuse in a school setting 40+ years ago is not all that surprising.
- vmilner 4y ago
  I think early 80s is when it becomes tricky to _legally_ beat kids in schools in the uk. I suspect collective punishment was actually illegal long before that but it wasn’t tested in courts.
LAC-Tech 4y ago
Well has it worked? Have you knifed anyone?
- dijksterhuis 4y ago
  You cannot say “well you probably haven’t done this one, specific, highly unlikely thing for someone in the UK to do. So yeah caning probably worked, right!” I haven’t knived anyone. I was never caned at school. The absence of someone doing a thing is not proof of a thing doing what you believe it does.
- DieAgainAli 4y ago
  You act like ‘back in my day’ there wasn’t any crime. If you look at murder rates in the UK they peaked in the early 2000’s. Maybe those abused boys were taught violence is the answer? Letting your baby ‘cry it out’ is abuse in my eyes and you can sleep train them without doing this. With my daughter we soothed her in her cot instead of picking her up. She will now link her sleep cycles and only cry when there is something wrong
  - LAC-Tech 4y ago
    Glad to see the UK is past their murder rate peak - what's the rate now, merely double what it was in 50s or the Edwardian Era?
    - talideon 4y ago
      The murder rate in the UK tracked the presence of environmental lead from things like paint, leaded petrol, &. The murder rate in the UK is now trending towards what it was in the Edwardian period, when it was introduced. Beating children doesn't make them obedient and law-abiding adults.
  - wolpoli 4y ago
    > If you look at murder rates in the UK they peaked in the early 2000’s. Maybe those abused boys were taught violence is the answer? There were earlier HN posts attributing the decline in the rate of murder rate/violence crime to countries phasing out lead-gasoline. Now we might never know unless we do a properly controlled experiment.

sanderjd 4y ago

Comparing a 9-month-old spending 15 minutes calming themselves down before falling asleep to physical abuse is laughably absurd. A big problem with this "debate" is that people conjure images of newborn babies being left to cry for hours, when what is actually predominantly practiced is older infants 6-12 months old being allowed to cry for less than half an hour. After being fed and given a clean diaper and a safe place to sleep, being rocked to sleep just isn't a "need" for an older infant; they are crying because they want to be soothed to sleep. And it's fine to do that if you want to as a parent (which pretty much all parents do!), but it's also fine for them to learn to soothe themselves instead. It isn't "emotional abuse".

aaomidi 4y ago
Yeah…cause they’re human and as the parent you’re their only human interaction. Why is them wanting to be soothed seen as a bad thing? Like, what the fuck do we think these babies are actively scheming to find ways to get soothed? I swear our brains are looking for adversaries in infants now. Your infant child can not manipulate you. The brains barely understand action and consequence. Your infant child is trying to communicate its needs, and having it unmet with indifference is honestly hilariously sad.
- gregoriol 4y ago
  What if it is part of learning?
- sanderjd 4y ago
  It's not a bad thing, just like it's not bad for a baby to want to be spoon-fed. But part of growing up is learning new skills, like eating by themselves and soothing themselves to sleep. And a big part of parenting is figuring out the right times and ways to encourage this. You know what has been a far more traumatic growing experience for every kid I've known than learning to sleep independently? Learning to use a toilet. Way more tears, way more "emotional trauma", but it's all part of growing up. > I swear our brains are looking for adversaries in infants now. Also, sleep training is not some new-agey thing that we've just concocted out of a recent adversarial parenting trend; if anything it's exactly the opposite, it is the focus on "attachment" and concern over the impact of things like sleep training that is the newer trend.

somrand0 4y ago

well yea, because your parents were essentially slaves, the property of higher elite classes. I'm pointing to the class relationship, nothing specific to your parents. I wonder if such practices were used in schools reserved for royalty and other nobles in the UK

dijksterhuis 4y ago
It’s well known that “elite” schools such as Eton also used physical punishment in a similar manner.

0xEFF 4y ago

Is it emotionally abusive to ignore a child's hours long temper tantrum after they're told they can't have ice cream for dinner?