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Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was some

Not regarding a human child, but my spouse thought leaving our rescue dog, still a youngster only a few months old, in a cage in another room overnight was somehow proper, which frankly incensed me as cruel and abusive nonsense, because it's not the way of the wild, not what any of us were evolved for. And I'd lived with and worked with rescue animals for decades, so felt strongly about this. (i put my foot down and gave her run of the house so she was soothed to be with her (generalized) family, and she's been fantastic ever since. my spouse is still indignant about her plan being abandoned, but it proved the effective and healthy choice.)

cycrutchfield 4y ago
Crate training is pretty normal and not sure why you feel so weird about it. Is it “the way of the wild” to keep the dog in your house?
- zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
  Docking tails and ears is normal too. Male circumcision is normal. Locking people in cages for possessing certain plants, extracts, chemicals is normal. War and all of the murder that goes on in it is normal. Burning coal is normal. Limiting rights of women is some countries is normal.
- illegalsmile 4y ago
  I don't get it either. Our shelter dogs were always crated overnight since they weren't allowed in the bedrooms and they would go there when it was bed time with no problem. Occasionally they'd go to their crate to take naps or seek refuge there during storms. I guess if a dog willingly going into a crate to sleep while everyone else slept is cruel and abusive I don't know what they'd think about actual abuse. Our dogs lived long happy lives. Most dogs I know have a spot that's tight and cozy, maybe even covered, that they go to; crate or not. If you crate train with positive reinforcement it's a benefit for everyone IMO even if you don't make them sleep in there.
  - jjtheblunt 4y ago
    I think what we did is much more similar to what you describe, with the crate door left open, so she didn't feel isolated when the other pets and humans were in other rooms. we moved the crate upstairs and left the door to it open, and she took a liking to it as her own space, and would choose to go sleep in it like it was her bedroom (or whatever), but having it at the distant end of the house clearly alone for the sake of isolating her is what I found counterproductive.
  - pavas 4y ago
    You're talking about the dog not minding being in the crate since you've taught them its nice and cozy. In that case why does it have to be a crate, why not say, an indoor doghouse? As far as that goes, there's nothing wrong with that and that's not the part that people actually have problems with (but it's a nice strawman to argue against). The part that is cruel and abusive is locking them up when nobody is at home so they can't damage your possessions. If there is some emergency like a fire, intruder, something falling down, etc, they can't do anything about it.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  common, yes. what wolves and coyotes do, sort of, during the day when out hunting, but not leaving their pups alone overnight, right?
maximinus_thrax 4y ago
> because it's not the way of the wild Not to defend crate training, but potty training, walking your dog on a schedule, feeding it processed dog food and generally keeping a pet indoors is also not the way of the wild.
- wizzwizz4 4y ago
  > potty training, walking your dog on a schedule, These are actually somewhat similar to wild dog behaviours. They usually have specific areas to poo, and they often have routines – albeit, not externally-enforced ones.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  yep agree with all that too
Insanity 4y ago
Crate training is a good thing (imo) but should be done properly. Not just sticking them in a crate overnight in another room and ignoring them. Our dog is crate trained, which makes travelling with him way easier for example. (He is 1 year old now, so at night he just walks into his crate whenever he feels tired. We don’t have to put him in his crate anymore). You have to make sure they associate positive experiences with it.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  good point. we left her crate set up with door open, which she could use as a "fort", and she did like that for napping. i guessed partly in the sense she doesn't have to stay partially awake worrying about being stepped on.
  - Der_Einzige 4y ago
    If only every owner would keep the damn door open.
- kgermino 4y ago
  Adding to this, we didn’t crate train our dog and while I wouldn’t say I regret that, it makes things harder. She hated the crate when we introduced it. We couldn’t find any way to get her in there without her panicking and trying to dig out after a few minutes. She had a bad history before us and is completely fine outside the crate so we gave up. Day to day it’s fine. She wanders on her own schedule, has a dog bed she claims as her space, and doesn’t really cause any issues. However, when we travel she’s loose in the car without a comfortable space. When some people visit there’s no obvious place to send her, so she has to be locked in a room where she isn’t used to being confined. When kids visit she has a harder time getting away from the chaos. She doesn’t have a consistently dark place during the day to sleep. The list goes on. Crate training isn’t just about giving your dog a small room you can lock them in, it’s giving them a private, safe, emotionally and physically comfortable space they can call their own. The crate travels - so their safe space is always with them, they can escape to it, and they are in a comfortable place if you need to lock them up for some reason (as always happens sometimes). Our dog doesn’t have that.
silisili 4y ago
Dogs are not 'way of the wild' creatures. Most, if not all, wouldn't even survive in the wild without human intervention.
Der_Einzige 4y ago
Don't worry, crate training is indeed illegal in many western European nations. Americans who do this are deluded into thinking it's okay. I had the misfortune of living with a person who did this with their two dogs and I saw the impacts it had on the dog first hand. No, 10000 years ago, when the dog fell asleep in the den with its "owners", the den door was NOT closed. It is abusive as fuck to crate train. I'm also very happy to have seen states like California take a stand against usage of small crates within factory farming techniques with chicken and veal. There's still far more to be done on this front, but there will be an end to this practice eventually.

cycrutchfield 4y ago

Crate training is pretty normal and not sure why you feel so weird about it. Is it “the way of the wild” to keep the dog in your house?

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
Docking tails and ears is normal too. Male circumcision is normal. Locking people in cages for possessing certain plants, extracts, chemicals is normal. War and all of the murder that goes on in it is normal. Burning coal is normal. Limiting rights of women is some countries is normal.
illegalsmile 4y ago
I don't get it either. Our shelter dogs were always crated overnight since they weren't allowed in the bedrooms and they would go there when it was bed time with no problem. Occasionally they'd go to their crate to take naps or seek refuge there during storms. I guess if a dog willingly going into a crate to sleep while everyone else slept is cruel and abusive I don't know what they'd think about actual abuse. Our dogs lived long happy lives. Most dogs I know have a spot that's tight and cozy, maybe even covered, that they go to; crate or not. If you crate train with positive reinforcement it's a benefit for everyone IMO even if you don't make them sleep in there.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  I think what we did is much more similar to what you describe, with the crate door left open, so she didn't feel isolated when the other pets and humans were in other rooms. we moved the crate upstairs and left the door to it open, and she took a liking to it as her own space, and would choose to go sleep in it like it was her bedroom (or whatever), but having it at the distant end of the house clearly alone for the sake of isolating her is what I found counterproductive.
- pavas 4y ago
  You're talking about the dog not minding being in the crate since you've taught them its nice and cozy. In that case why does it have to be a crate, why not say, an indoor doghouse? As far as that goes, there's nothing wrong with that and that's not the part that people actually have problems with (but it's a nice strawman to argue against). The part that is cruel and abusive is locking them up when nobody is at home so they can't damage your possessions. If there is some emergency like a fire, intruder, something falling down, etc, they can't do anything about it.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
common, yes. what wolves and coyotes do, sort of, during the day when out hunting, but not leaving their pups alone overnight, right?

maximinus_thrax 4y ago

> because it's not the way of the wild Not to defend crate training, but potty training, walking your dog on a schedule, feeding it processed dog food and generally keeping a pet indoors is also not the way of the wild.

wizzwizz4 4y ago
> potty training, walking your dog on a schedule, These are actually somewhat similar to wild dog behaviours. They usually have specific areas to poo, and they often have routines – albeit, not externally-enforced ones.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
yep agree with all that too

Insanity 4y ago

Crate training is a good thing (imo) but should be done properly. Not just sticking them in a crate overnight in another room and ignoring them. Our dog is crate trained, which makes travelling with him way easier for example. (He is 1 year old now, so at night he just walks into his crate whenever he feels tired. We don’t have to put him in his crate anymore). You have to make sure they associate positive experiences with it.

jjtheblunt 4y ago
good point. we left her crate set up with door open, which she could use as a "fort", and she did like that for napping. i guessed partly in the sense she doesn't have to stay partially awake worrying about being stepped on.
- Der_Einzige 4y ago
  If only every owner would keep the damn door open.
kgermino 4y ago
Adding to this, we didn’t crate train our dog and while I wouldn’t say I regret that, it makes things harder. She hated the crate when we introduced it. We couldn’t find any way to get her in there without her panicking and trying to dig out after a few minutes. She had a bad history before us and is completely fine outside the crate so we gave up. Day to day it’s fine. She wanders on her own schedule, has a dog bed she claims as her space, and doesn’t really cause any issues. However, when we travel she’s loose in the car without a comfortable space. When some people visit there’s no obvious place to send her, so she has to be locked in a room where she isn’t used to being confined. When kids visit she has a harder time getting away from the chaos. She doesn’t have a consistently dark place during the day to sleep. The list goes on. Crate training isn’t just about giving your dog a small room you can lock them in, it’s giving them a private, safe, emotionally and physically comfortable space they can call their own. The crate travels - so their safe space is always with them, they can escape to it, and they are in a comfortable place if you need to lock them up for some reason (as always happens sometimes). Our dog doesn’t have that.

silisili 4y ago

Dogs are not 'way of the wild' creatures. Most, if not all, wouldn't even survive in the wild without human intervention.

Der_Einzige 4y ago

Don't worry, crate training is indeed illegal in many western European nations. Americans who do this are deluded into thinking it's okay. I had the misfortune of living with a person who did this with their two dogs and I saw the impacts it had on the dog first hand. No, 10000 years ago, when the dog fell asleep in the den with its "owners", the den door was NOT closed. It is abusive as fuck to crate train. I'm also very happy to have seen states like California take a stand against usage of small crates within factory farming techniques with chicken and veal. There's still far more to be done on this front, but there will be an end to this practice eventually.