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Replying to your edited comment... I understood your comment as saying that veganism is seen as an extreme act. But veganism is far from that. Veganism isn't

Replying to your edited comment... I understood your comment as saying that veganism is seen as an extreme act. But veganism is far from that. Veganism isn't dogmatic. It's pragmatic as per the official definition. E.g. if you are on a hike and you get lost and have to survive by hunting, even though you usually don't eat animals - you could still call yourself vegan - because you need to hunt to survive. Or something simpler - if you have your own chickens and eat their eggs and you don't intend to slaughter the chickens later on- I'd class that as vegan, because you're not harming the chickens. But I agree with you - people who promote veganism as a dogmatic philosophy can be seen as extreme.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
> and eat their eggs and you don't intend to slaughter the chickens later on- I'd class that as vegan, because you're not harming the chickens. You cannot make your own definition of 'veganism' as you go, that makes any discussion impossible even without your strawman argument. What you describe here is not veganism (no animal products at all, including things like honey), it's a common flavour of vegetarianism (no killing of animals). In the definition of 'veganism' you quoted from the Vegan Society, there is 'exploitation'. Veganism sees eating eggs or honey as exploitation no matter how well treated the animals are, which is why it is off-limits. That same goes with wearing wool, for instance.
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Again - veganism is pragmatic - not dogmatic. There are vegans who have rescue chickens (from factory farms) and they do eat their eggs. The rescue chickens are given a happy life where they can roam freely in a garden. It's a different matter when it comes to milk - which is intended for the baby cow. Same with honey - it's actually being eaten by bees and you can't replace it with sugar water, as it has fewer nutrients for the bees. Edit: When it comes to wool, there are vegans who still wear their wool or leather items from their pre-vegan days. You wouldn't simply throw them away - you just don't buy new wool or leather products. Keyword here is pragmatism.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    I think you're imagining what you wish should be. You've been to the Vegan Society's website, though... veganism is not pragmatic and is quite strict/dogmatic, that's the whole point, otherwise it would be generic vegetarianism. If people don't even know and understand terms and philosophies/ideologies then there is nothing that can be discussed. In any case, best wishes for the new year.
    - uxcolumbo 4y ago
      Happy New Year. As with many other communities - the vegan community is not homogeneous. Like I said before - yes there are some people within this community who are dogmatic, but that doesn't mean veganism is dogmatic. The core principle of veganism is not wanting to harm non-human sentient beings and generally not wanting to destroy our biosphere. So if someone strives to live by those principles, but still has to use products that contain animal products, e.g. if you need to take medication that contains gelatin or similar and there are no alternatives then it's OK - it's not dogmatic. Further down this article there are various other examples: https://veganfta.com/2022/11/23/practicable-veganism/ https://veganfta.com/2022/11/23/practicable-veganism/ Or here is another article talking about this: https://veganstrategist.org/2017/09/13/beware-vegan-dogma/ https://veganstrategist.org/2017/09/13/beware-vegan-dogma/ - this person wrote a book called "How to Create a Vegan World: a Pragmatic Approach". The goals is to get rid of animal factory farming and the destruction of our biosphere. Dogmatism isn't going to get us there.

mytailorisrich 4y ago

> and eat their eggs and you don't intend to slaughter the chickens later on- I'd class that as vegan, because you're not harming the chickens. You cannot make your own definition of 'veganism' as you go, that makes any discussion impossible even without your strawman argument. What you describe here is not veganism (no animal products at all, including things like honey), it's a common flavour of vegetarianism (no killing of animals). In the definition of 'veganism' you quoted from the Vegan Society, there is 'exploitation'. Veganism sees eating eggs or honey as exploitation no matter how well treated the animals are, which is why it is off-limits. That same goes with wearing wool, for instance.

uxcolumbo 4y ago
Again - veganism is pragmatic - not dogmatic. There are vegans who have rescue chickens (from factory farms) and they do eat their eggs. The rescue chickens are given a happy life where they can roam freely in a garden. It's a different matter when it comes to milk - which is intended for the baby cow. Same with honey - it's actually being eaten by bees and you can't replace it with sugar water, as it has fewer nutrients for the bees. Edit: When it comes to wool, there are vegans who still wear their wool or leather items from their pre-vegan days. You wouldn't simply throw them away - you just don't buy new wool or leather products. Keyword here is pragmatism.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  I think you're imagining what you wish should be. You've been to the Vegan Society's website, though... veganism is not pragmatic and is quite strict/dogmatic, that's the whole point, otherwise it would be generic vegetarianism. If people don't even know and understand terms and philosophies/ideologies then there is nothing that can be discussed. In any case, best wishes for the new year.
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    Happy New Year. As with many other communities - the vegan community is not homogeneous. Like I said before - yes there are some people within this community who are dogmatic, but that doesn't mean veganism is dogmatic. The core principle of veganism is not wanting to harm non-human sentient beings and generally not wanting to destroy our biosphere. So if someone strives to live by those principles, but still has to use products that contain animal products, e.g. if you need to take medication that contains gelatin or similar and there are no alternatives then it's OK - it's not dogmatic. Further down this article there are various other examples: https://veganfta.com/2022/11/23/practicable-veganism/ https://veganfta.com/2022/11/23/practicable-veganism/ Or here is another article talking about this: https://veganstrategist.org/2017/09/13/beware-vegan-dogma/ https://veganstrategist.org/2017/09/13/beware-vegan-dogma/ - this person wrote a book called "How to Create a Vegan World: a Pragmatic Approach". The goals is to get rid of animal factory farming and the destruction of our biosphere. Dogmatism isn't going to get us there.