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Probably they don’t do that because the experience would be confusing for 98% of users. Is there some search engine people actually use not in that list?

super256 4y ago
Yes. I use kagi.com, and it is incredibly annoying to be redirected to *DuckDuckGo when I use the “search on the web” feature. *IMO DDG is the only viable alternative to google in the apple search selection list
- fotta 4y ago
  There’s a Kagi safari extension that will redirect any searches to Kagi. I still set my default to DDG because I think the extension intercepts after the request has been sent. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/kagi-search-for-safari/id1607766153 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/kagi-search-for-safari/id16077...
  - PartiallyTyped 4y ago
    There is also a browser built by the Kagi team for iOS. Well, as much of a browser as you can get on iOS.
    - fotta 4y ago
      I tried it when it was initially in beta but haven’t tried it again. I should give it another spin.
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    But then when I want to do another search I have to disable this extension otherwise it still redirects
    - fotta 4y ago
      You mean on a Kagi result page? I just type the new query into the search bar on the Kagi page instead. Agreed it’s not ideal.
  - super256 4y ago
    I use this extension, but I also use Firefox. So, this doesn't work for me, unfortunately. :(
- edgyquant 4y ago
  I recently began using Kagi and it is a pain getting the same experience. They do have an extension but it’s a back at best.
- chatmasta 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure that every non-Google, non-Bing search engine on this list (Yahoo, DuckDuckGo and Ecosia) is actually powered by Bing. So really Apple is restricting me to two search engines: Google and Bing.
jjulius 4y ago
A relatively very popular one that isn't on the list in the screenshot, and that the linked Tweet even calls out, is Brave.
- chadlavi 4y ago
  Brave has an iOS app. Are there people who have an iPhone and want to use brave as a search engine but don't want to use brave's browser app?
  - jjulius 4y ago
    Yes - again, the linked Tweet that this HN thread is about is literally someone asking for that.
  - tsuujin 4y ago
    I usually search for something by pulling down on the Home Screen and searching from there; it searches multiple types of thing for me automatically (files, photos, notes, web, etc) and is very convenient for me. I would like to set kagi as the iOS search engine so that it redirects queries directly to kagi in my default browser, rather than routing it through another search engine that a plug-in redirects to kagi for me. I imagine the same basic request is what brave users are looking for. It’s a minor irritation but seems like it should be trivially solvable as an outside observer.
deleted 4y ago
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deafpolygon 4y ago
> Probably they don’t do that because the experience would be confusing for 98% of users. Classic Apple deflection.
- atonse 4y ago
  I don’t know what your interests are, but an analogy I would propose is if your car had a menu that let you set the brake balance and fuel mixture. I know what those things are because I’m a fan of f1 racing. But even I wouldn’t care past a “huh that’s cool” Yes, most people wouldn’t care or even understand that, and same with their search engine. It would confuse them if they got to it. And it isn’t worth keeping it open ended just to please the 1% of nerds, most of which would tinker once and move on. So then it is good to tell non-tech people “you can trust the list” I for one much prefer the apple approach for mainstream users. It gives them a solid set of defaults. If there’s a search engine that’s better than what’s on that list, then we know how to add it and it will make it to the list eventually.
  - deafpolygon 4y ago
    Weird, because it's an option in Microsoft Edge, Google Chrome, Firefox on the desktop, as well as on mobile. They (Safari on iOS) account for 48.6% of the mobile browser market (with Chrome taking 45.11%) according to statcounter. On the desktop, they drop to 15.5% with Chrome taking the lion's share at 61.79%. It's such a relatively common feature of all but one browser. When you add a search engine, most of the time, it's enough to add in the "%s" string for your search keyword.. and figure out where it goes. For example, with Google it is www.google.com/search?q=%s. > I for one much prefer the apple approach for mainstream users. It gives them a solid set of defaults. Such a weird way to think. Is your view of society such that people are just dumb and need to be coddled?
    - emodendroket 4y ago
      Can’t speak for the other guy but my view is that the phone isn’t my primary computing device and I don’t really want to tinker with it that much.
sseagull 4y ago
Imagine if everyone could only do what 98% of users do for everything. Only the most popular websites, apps, books, restaurants, etc. The world would be a boring place. (And you wouldn’t be allowed to visit HN)
chatmasta 4y ago
I don't think it would be confusing if Apple implemented it like Firefox does: when I'm on a site with an OpenSearch specification, give me the option to add it to my list of available search engines. Then when I'm typing in the omnibar, "Search XYZ.com for <my query>" would be an option I could tap, and similarly it would be an option available for me to choose as a default search engine in Settings.app. Apple already takes up a bunch of space in the URL bar with that stupid microphone icon for dictation that I've never used. Maybe they could put the button there.
jeroenhd 4y ago
In Chrome for Android, the procedure is the following: - Open any search page that follows the spec - Search for anything (not always necessary) - Open settings > search - Select your search engine from the "recently visited" list In Firefox you need to add a custom URL, which 99% of users won't know what to do with so they'll just ignore it. This allows for more customisation but it's also a higher bar to clear. I don't think either implementations would drive away users. Worst case scenario, the procedure is too complicated for those using a popular custom search engine and Apple needs to make their default search provider list bigger.
pleb_nz 4y ago
Absolutely. Kagi, brave are two popular ones if the top of my head.

super256 4y ago

Yes. I use kagi.com, and it is incredibly annoying to be redirected to *DuckDuckGo when I use the “search on the web” feature. *IMO DDG is the only viable alternative to google in the apple search selection list

fotta 4y ago
There’s a Kagi safari extension that will redirect any searches to Kagi. I still set my default to DDG because I think the extension intercepts after the request has been sent. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/kagi-search-for-safari/id1607766153 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/kagi-search-for-safari/id16077...
- PartiallyTyped 4y ago
  There is also a browser built by the Kagi team for iOS. Well, as much of a browser as you can get on iOS.
  - fotta 4y ago
    I tried it when it was initially in beta but haven’t tried it again. I should give it another spin.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  But then when I want to do another search I have to disable this extension otherwise it still redirects
  - fotta 4y ago
    You mean on a Kagi result page? I just type the new query into the search bar on the Kagi page instead. Agreed it’s not ideal.
- super256 4y ago
  I use this extension, but I also use Firefox. So, this doesn't work for me, unfortunately. :(
edgyquant 4y ago
I recently began using Kagi and it is a pain getting the same experience. They do have an extension but it’s a back at best.
chatmasta 4y ago
I'm pretty sure that every non-Google, non-Bing search engine on this list (Yahoo, DuckDuckGo and Ecosia) is actually powered by Bing. So really Apple is restricting me to two search engines: Google and Bing.

jjulius 4y ago

A relatively very popular one that isn't on the list in the screenshot, and that the linked Tweet even calls out, is Brave.

chadlavi 4y ago
Brave has an iOS app. Are there people who have an iPhone and want to use brave as a search engine but don't want to use brave's browser app?
- jjulius 4y ago
  Yes - again, the linked Tweet that this HN thread is about is literally someone asking for that.
- tsuujin 4y ago
  I usually search for something by pulling down on the Home Screen and searching from there; it searches multiple types of thing for me automatically (files, photos, notes, web, etc) and is very convenient for me. I would like to set kagi as the iOS search engine so that it redirects queries directly to kagi in my default browser, rather than routing it through another search engine that a plug-in redirects to kagi for me. I imagine the same basic request is what brave users are looking for. It’s a minor irritation but seems like it should be trivially solvable as an outside observer.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deafpolygon 4y ago

> Probably they don’t do that because the experience would be confusing for 98% of users. Classic Apple deflection.

atonse 4y ago
I don’t know what your interests are, but an analogy I would propose is if your car had a menu that let you set the brake balance and fuel mixture. I know what those things are because I’m a fan of f1 racing. But even I wouldn’t care past a “huh that’s cool” Yes, most people wouldn’t care or even understand that, and same with their search engine. It would confuse them if they got to it. And it isn’t worth keeping it open ended just to please the 1% of nerds, most of which would tinker once and move on. So then it is good to tell non-tech people “you can trust the list” I for one much prefer the apple approach for mainstream users. It gives them a solid set of defaults. If there’s a search engine that’s better than what’s on that list, then we know how to add it and it will make it to the list eventually.
- deafpolygon 4y ago
  Weird, because it's an option in Microsoft Edge, Google Chrome, Firefox on the desktop, as well as on mobile. They (Safari on iOS) account for 48.6% of the mobile browser market (with Chrome taking 45.11%) according to statcounter. On the desktop, they drop to 15.5% with Chrome taking the lion's share at 61.79%. It's such a relatively common feature of all but one browser. When you add a search engine, most of the time, it's enough to add in the "%s" string for your search keyword.. and figure out where it goes. For example, with Google it is www.google.com/search?q=%s. > I for one much prefer the apple approach for mainstream users. It gives them a solid set of defaults. Such a weird way to think. Is your view of society such that people are just dumb and need to be coddled?
  - emodendroket 4y ago
    Can’t speak for the other guy but my view is that the phone isn’t my primary computing device and I don’t really want to tinker with it that much.

sseagull 4y ago

Imagine if everyone could only do what 98% of users do for everything. Only the most popular websites, apps, books, restaurants, etc. The world would be a boring place. (And you wouldn’t be allowed to visit HN)

chatmasta 4y ago

I don't think it would be confusing if Apple implemented it like Firefox does: when I'm on a site with an OpenSearch specification, give me the option to add it to my list of available search engines. Then when I'm typing in the omnibar, "Search XYZ.com for <my query>" would be an option I could tap, and similarly it would be an option available for me to choose as a default search engine in Settings.app. Apple already takes up a bunch of space in the URL bar with that stupid microphone icon for dictation that I've never used. Maybe they could put the button there.

jeroenhd 4y ago

In Chrome for Android, the procedure is the following: - Open any search page that follows the spec - Search for anything (not always necessary) - Open settings > search - Select your search engine from the "recently visited" list In Firefox you need to add a custom URL, which 99% of users won't know what to do with so they'll just ignore it. This allows for more customisation but it's also a higher bar to clear. I don't think either implementations would drive away users. Worst case scenario, the procedure is too complicated for those using a popular custom search engine and Apple needs to make their default search provider list bigger.

pleb_nz 4y ago

Absolutely. Kagi, brave are two popular ones if the top of my head.