4 ms·

I'm both excited for you and worried that over the medium to long term, companies will adjust the pay down to match people's locales and such salaries will be l

I'm both excited for you and worried that over the medium to long term, companies will adjust the pay down to match people's locales and such salaries will be lower over time from more competition. But as I said, excited for you as it currently stands :-)

xen2xen1 4y ago
The real concern is that companies that are 100% remote will pick Romaina and not Iowa.
- newaccount2021 4y ago
  [dead]
- em500 4y ago
  Why is that the real concern? Are Romanians (or Indians for that matter) somehow less deserving of higher pay than Iowans?
  - watwut 4y ago
    I think that it is because speaker is an American and for Americans, business being in America is better then the one in Romania. The same goes for people in Romania who absolutely understand the exact same thing. They prefer jobs to be in their country. It is legitimate for people to worry whether jobs will be where they live or elsewhere.
    - em500 4y ago
      My question was mostly retorical. I know that prioritizing fellow citizens is common in almost every country. But I think it is in most cases not morally justifiable, especially in the US where almost everyone is descendent of low single-digit generation immigrants. Not to mention 0-generation immigrants especially in California. (It wouldn't surprise me if there are more highly paid Californian SWE with family in India or China than in Iowa.)
      - mensetmanusman 4y ago
        It is usually morally justifiable because one is more likely to have a positive impact on your family and community.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        It wouldn’t surprise me either to learn that more Californian <anything requiring college or equivalent> have family coming from among over a bit over a billion than from a bit over 3 million people.
      - watwut 4y ago
        What does being 3th or more generation immigrant have to do with that? At that point, the ties toward where ancestors came from are purely theoretical. The person have nothing to do with culture or economy of country of origin anymore.
  - skeeter2020 4y ago
    Is it a real concern? Obviously if you live in Iowa, yes.
    - fundad 4y ago
      People can downsize to Romania if salaries sink that low.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        Unless Romania decides they want the kind of control of their local culture and wat of life that os cited to motivate American immigration restrictions, which have led to the absolute (not just population proportional) rate of legal immigration peaking in 1907.
        fundad 4y ago
        Maybe FL and TX will establish immigration restrictions from other states unless they want CA real estate valuation.
  - xen2xen1 4y ago
    I'm sitting in the American Midwest. Good jobs are already scarce here, and people are used to "move to a big city for decent pay". So yes, it's a concern.
- theGnuMe 4y ago
  I use to worry about this but in my experience there's too much work and not enough workers worldwide so it's not a big deal especially considering language barriers. Even outsourcing hits physical limits. Having folks in the same or closely related time zones makes a huge difference. Having folks with skin in the game and no Visa issues as well. I also think opportunities are only going to grow.
atomicnumber3 4y ago
I think - and obviously this is speculation - that “real” software companies (where their primary product is a software thingy with appropriate unit economics) will not really be able to lower comp regardless of where it is. There’s a reason engineers in SF get paid 300-500k TC easy, and it’s because they generate multiples of that in return. Software is ridiculously high-margin and (not to toot our collective on horn, but) it’s not something anyone can just do, especially at the mix of technical and soft skills that many FAANG type places require you to be at once you’re at senior/staff levels. And let’s be honest, if places really could, they would’ve already outsourced to people where COL is 99% lower instead of 20-50% lower. I do think people tend to overestimate how much cheaper it is to live in flyover country. Even real estate isn’t that% much cheaper unless you’re literally buying a farm with no good internet. And iPhones cost the exact same. So it’s not like companies will be eyeing Kansas as the next India or Estonia. It’s just not enough of an arbitrage to be worth it. Most places I looked at recently were only geo-adjusting base comp by either 0 or 10%. This is all for senior software eng positions though. Junior and mid positions might be a very different story due to supply being so much higher.

xen2xen1 4y ago

The real concern is that companies that are 100% remote will pick Romaina and not Iowa.

newaccount2021 4y ago
[dead]
em500 4y ago
Why is that the real concern? Are Romanians (or Indians for that matter) somehow less deserving of higher pay than Iowans?
- watwut 4y ago
  I think that it is because speaker is an American and for Americans, business being in America is better then the one in Romania. The same goes for people in Romania who absolutely understand the exact same thing. They prefer jobs to be in their country. It is legitimate for people to worry whether jobs will be where they live or elsewhere.
  - em500 4y ago
    My question was mostly retorical. I know that prioritizing fellow citizens is common in almost every country. But I think it is in most cases not morally justifiable, especially in the US where almost everyone is descendent of low single-digit generation immigrants. Not to mention 0-generation immigrants especially in California. (It wouldn't surprise me if there are more highly paid Californian SWE with family in India or China than in Iowa.)
    - mensetmanusman 4y ago
      It is usually morally justifiable because one is more likely to have a positive impact on your family and community.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      It wouldn’t surprise me either to learn that more Californian <anything requiring college or equivalent> have family coming from among over a bit over a billion than from a bit over 3 million people.
    - watwut 4y ago
      What does being 3th or more generation immigrant have to do with that? At that point, the ties toward where ancestors came from are purely theoretical. The person have nothing to do with culture or economy of country of origin anymore.
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  Is it a real concern? Obviously if you live in Iowa, yes.
  - fundad 4y ago
    People can downsize to Romania if salaries sink that low.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      Unless Romania decides they want the kind of control of their local culture and wat of life that os cited to motivate American immigration restrictions, which have led to the absolute (not just population proportional) rate of legal immigration peaking in 1907.
      - fundad 4y ago
        Maybe FL and TX will establish immigration restrictions from other states unless they want CA real estate valuation.
- xen2xen1 4y ago
  I'm sitting in the American Midwest. Good jobs are already scarce here, and people are used to "move to a big city for decent pay". So yes, it's a concern.
theGnuMe 4y ago
I use to worry about this but in my experience there's too much work and not enough workers worldwide so it's not a big deal especially considering language barriers. Even outsourcing hits physical limits. Having folks in the same or closely related time zones makes a huge difference. Having folks with skin in the game and no Visa issues as well. I also think opportunities are only going to grow.

atomicnumber3 4y ago

I think - and obviously this is speculation - that “real” software companies (where their primary product is a software thingy with appropriate unit economics) will not really be able to lower comp regardless of where it is. There’s a reason engineers in SF get paid 300-500k TC easy, and it’s because they generate multiples of that in return. Software is ridiculously high-margin and (not to toot our collective on horn, but) it’s not something anyone can just do, especially at the mix of technical and soft skills that many FAANG type places require you to be at once you’re at senior/staff levels. And let’s be honest, if places really could, they would’ve already outsourced to people where COL is 99% lower instead of 20-50% lower. I do think people tend to overestimate how much cheaper it is to live in flyover country. Even real estate isn’t that% much cheaper unless you’re literally buying a farm with no good internet. And iPhones cost the exact same. So it’s not like companies will be eyeing Kansas as the next India or Estonia. It’s just not enough of an arbitrage to be worth it. Most places I looked at recently were only geo-adjusting base comp by either 0 or 10%. This is all for senior software eng positions though. Junior and mid positions might be a very different story due to supply being so much higher.