6 ms·

Then you run into local zoning. I for one would love more mixed zoning in neighborhoods on city boundaries, but too many entrenched interests at the moment

rqtwteye 4y ago
Zoning may change with more people working from home and wanting things closer.
andybak 4y ago
I live in the UK and local shops, restaurants are ubuiquitous. Is that really something that is actively legislated against in the US?
- ahoy 4y ago
  Extensively, yes. Having housing & non-housing in the same area is rare in much of the US.
  - andybak 4y ago
    But... What happens if you've had a beer and suddenly remember you need a pint of milk for the morning? To pick an entirely not uncommon example from my own life...
    - ryukafalz 4y ago
      In much of the country, you either have it delivered or you go without it. There's commonly no reasonable way to get to a store without a car. I'm just moving to the suburbs but I had to specifically go looking for one with shops in walking distance. It's far from the norm; I've lived in places before where the only way to a shop was along a major highway and it was too far to reasonably walk unless you had no choice.
    - alexb_ 4y ago
      Then you wait until tomorrow so you can drive half an hour to the Wal Mart. Or get it delivered. There are also places like Dollar General and gas stations which sell essentials for incredibly inflated prices nearby that you could walk to (but can still be miles away)
    - SoftTalker 4y ago
      What if you do? In my experience in small European towns, shops close up at 5:00 or maybe a bit later but if you remember at 10:00pm (or on Sunday) that you need milk for the morning you are SOL.
      - andybak 4y ago
        My local supermarket shuts at 10pm and failing that I walk 5 minutes further to a 24hr petrol station. For reference I live 3 miles from the center of a town with a population of about 280,000.
    - ttymck 4y ago
      The other responses are reasonable but disingenuous. The truth is you drive anyway. We have a fantastic drunk driving culture in America. It's really disappointing.
    - masklinn 4y ago
      You take the car to the nearest big box store, mart, etc... usually miles away.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > Is that really something that is actively legislated against in the US? Yes. Zoning in the US tends to be restrictive and exclusionary, as in a given area is zoned for one type of use to the exclusion of any other. This means an area zoned residential does not allow any commercial use, not a local grocery, not a restaurant, not a barber shop. Furthermore, residential zones tend to be further restricted in order to preclude any sort of MDU or even townhouse, it's common for suburbia to have miles and miles of "single family" (exclusively detached residential) zoning. And this is not small cities in the boondocks, Seattle, Charlotte, Arlingon, or San Jose, are above 80% single-family zoning.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  I bought a house in a suburb a few years back. There is a little convenience store in the neighborhood a few blocks walk. Also a little Italian restaurant. It's pretty neat but this is the first time I've had this in 25+ years. Generally residential means residential. Nice part is it's pretty hidden inside the neighborhood so almost all clientele is local. I probably wouldn't like it if it was convenient to a major road and traffic was pulled in.
- euroderf 4y ago
  The HOA (Homeowners' Association) might state, for example, no corner shops. So, you want a quart of milk or a loaf of bread ? Get in the car!
- bee_rider 4y ago
  Other comments have described the situation well, but I want to note that “suburbs” like this are pretty common in the US, but not like the only place to live. In particular they are a place where lots of people move when they are getting established in their careers, and starting to have kids — lots of people grew up in them so they get an outsized weight I think. We also have college towns and small cities! I tend to pick places where there’s something walkable, and have never lived in a place where I couldn’t walk to a shop or restaurant (although ”walkable” is subjective I guess, I’ve been in places where I had to walk 45 minutes through parking lots to get groceries). I dunno, suburbs are a funny thing… it is easily knowable what they are and what you are signing up for when you move to them, but lots of people end up there as a sort of default choice (or maybe not really a choice, they can be the most affordable place to get a house that fits multiple kids comfortably and isn’t in the absolute middle of nowhere).
- drivers99 4y ago
  Yes. There's a recent Not Just Bikes video[1] about third places (think UK pubs) and how they are largely missing the US and Canada. For more about the reason for that (Euclidean zoning), which is touched on in that video, this City Beautiful video is good [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg&t=8s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg&t=8s [2] U.S. and European Zoning, Compared https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNe9C866I2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNe9C866I2s

rqtwteye 4y ago

Zoning may change with more people working from home and wanting things closer.

andybak 4y ago

I live in the UK and local shops, restaurants are ubuiquitous. Is that really something that is actively legislated against in the US?

ahoy 4y ago
Extensively, yes. Having housing & non-housing in the same area is rare in much of the US.
- andybak 4y ago
  But... What happens if you've had a beer and suddenly remember you need a pint of milk for the morning? To pick an entirely not uncommon example from my own life...
  - ryukafalz 4y ago
    In much of the country, you either have it delivered or you go without it. There's commonly no reasonable way to get to a store without a car. I'm just moving to the suburbs but I had to specifically go looking for one with shops in walking distance. It's far from the norm; I've lived in places before where the only way to a shop was along a major highway and it was too far to reasonably walk unless you had no choice.
  - alexb_ 4y ago
    Then you wait until tomorrow so you can drive half an hour to the Wal Mart. Or get it delivered. There are also places like Dollar General and gas stations which sell essentials for incredibly inflated prices nearby that you could walk to (but can still be miles away)
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    What if you do? In my experience in small European towns, shops close up at 5:00 or maybe a bit later but if you remember at 10:00pm (or on Sunday) that you need milk for the morning you are SOL.
    - andybak 4y ago
      My local supermarket shuts at 10pm and failing that I walk 5 minutes further to a 24hr petrol station. For reference I live 3 miles from the center of a town with a population of about 280,000.
  - ttymck 4y ago
    The other responses are reasonable but disingenuous. The truth is you drive anyway. We have a fantastic drunk driving culture in America. It's really disappointing.
  - masklinn 4y ago
    You take the car to the nearest big box store, mart, etc... usually miles away.
masklinn 4y ago
> Is that really something that is actively legislated against in the US? Yes. Zoning in the US tends to be restrictive and exclusionary, as in a given area is zoned for one type of use to the exclusion of any other. This means an area zoned residential does not allow any commercial use, not a local grocery, not a restaurant, not a barber shop. Furthermore, residential zones tend to be further restricted in order to preclude any sort of MDU or even townhouse, it's common for suburbia to have miles and miles of "single family" (exclusively detached residential) zoning. And this is not small cities in the boondocks, Seattle, Charlotte, Arlingon, or San Jose, are above 80% single-family zoning.
wonderwonder 4y ago
I bought a house in a suburb a few years back. There is a little convenience store in the neighborhood a few blocks walk. Also a little Italian restaurant. It's pretty neat but this is the first time I've had this in 25+ years. Generally residential means residential. Nice part is it's pretty hidden inside the neighborhood so almost all clientele is local. I probably wouldn't like it if it was convenient to a major road and traffic was pulled in.
euroderf 4y ago
The HOA (Homeowners' Association) might state, for example, no corner shops. So, you want a quart of milk or a loaf of bread ? Get in the car!
bee_rider 4y ago
Other comments have described the situation well, but I want to note that “suburbs” like this are pretty common in the US, but not like the only place to live. In particular they are a place where lots of people move when they are getting established in their careers, and starting to have kids — lots of people grew up in them so they get an outsized weight I think. We also have college towns and small cities! I tend to pick places where there’s something walkable, and have never lived in a place where I couldn’t walk to a shop or restaurant (although ”walkable” is subjective I guess, I’ve been in places where I had to walk 45 minutes through parking lots to get groceries). I dunno, suburbs are a funny thing… it is easily knowable what they are and what you are signing up for when you move to them, but lots of people end up there as a sort of default choice (or maybe not really a choice, they can be the most affordable place to get a house that fits multiple kids comfortably and isn’t in the absolute middle of nowhere).
drivers99 4y ago
Yes. There's a recent Not Just Bikes video[1] about third places (think UK pubs) and how they are largely missing the US and Canada. For more about the reason for that (Euclidean zoning), which is touched on in that video, this City Beautiful video is good [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg&t=8s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg&t=8s [2] U.S. and European Zoning, Compared https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNe9C866I2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNe9C866I2s