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I think people need work. even meaningless work. It forces us to get out of bed in the morning and provides a crystallizing point for organizing our lives. bey

I think people need work. even meaningless work. It forces us to get out of bed in the morning and provides a crystallizing point for organizing our lives. beyond that, I think people need to feel like they have a purpose or serve a function even if minimal.

mschuster91 4y ago
People will work nevertheless - they just will do work unappreciated by capitalism: they will raise children (a large part of why birth rates have dropped is because it's absolutely impossible to raise children on two or more full time jobs), they will get into creative work (make music or art, write books, ...), they will take care of their elderly again instead of shoving them into "care homes", they will create open-source software, they will be managing their investments, they will work in whatever form of charity... > It forces us to get out of bed in the morning I'm European, even when I have vacation (yes, we actually have vacation) I still regularly get up out of bed. Medieval peasants also got out of bed.
- chasebank 4y ago
  I'd bet that most people, in fact, would sit on the couch and do nothing if given the chance. Most people are lazy. Most people are fat. Most people will take the path of least resistance and just do nothing. Medieval peasants didn't have television, internet and video games to isolate them. Humans are social creatures. As much as HN loves working remote, for most people, especially introverts, I'd wager it's terrible for their longterm health and mental state.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > I'd bet that most people, in fact, would sit on the couch and do nothing if given the chance. The data on UBI experiments [1] suggest that you may well lose the bet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots
ornornor 4y ago
Speak for yourself. I’d be the happiest if I didn’t have to work another day in my life. It doesn’t mean I’d be wasting away on the couch, just that I’d be able to do what I want and not the intersection of what pays/what I can tolerate. I don’t think people need work to live full lives. But it’s like remote work: why dictate everyone’s preferences rather than letting each person choose for themselves like an adult? There are many worthwhile things to pursue that a capitalistic society doesn’t value. I don’t think I need a boss coercing me to do mildly stupid and useless things to make some shareholders even richer to live a full life. But I’ve got rent to pay (so that some investors get richer) and so I must work, for now. I don’t consider it a source of personal fulfillment.
- gnarbarian 4y ago
  have you ever tried this? what was the longest stretch you had without a job?
  - ChoGGi 4y ago
    In retirement you either find a hobby or fade away.
  - ornornor 4y ago
    I have. Was not working for 3–6 months stretches throughout my life, recently 18 months.
    - jsrcout 4y ago
      Could I ask how you generally spent your time then? I've always wanted to try it, but fear succumbing to terminal couch potato syndrome. (Ideally I'd be a "maker" of some sort, do a lot of travel and hiking, yadda yadda).
      - ornornor 4y ago
        It’s not so black and white. I had weeks on end where I’d do nothing special like watching tv shows or playing games all day. But I think I’d have these stretches anyway whether I worked or not at the time. The rest of the time was spent reading many more books than when working, building side projects just for fun (sometimes even to completion, sometimes just to try or learn something). I learnt about building and maintaining bicycles (started rom not knowing a thing to having repaired and built many bicycles now), worked on home improvement projects I had set aside while working because I had “no time” (rather no energy left). I did hike some but I prefer cycling so went on loooong bike rides. Had more time for my family as well (just spending time together doing whatever with no pressure or fomo that the weekend is over soon). Also visited a bunch of museums and nearby cities and countries because all of sudden I could travel off peak for 1/3 of the cost and go places when it isn’t crowded. But all this is very personal. It might not be what you’re interested in at all. The general point I think is that you might have a few weeks or months of couch potatoing (especially if you’ve worked all your life and never took a really multi months break) but I am convinced you’ll eventually find something worthwhile to you to do. Nobody who is healthy enjoys spending months or years on their couch. I think people in that situation have other issues that should be addressed (mental health, depression, hormones, whatever). I don’t buy into the narrative that people without job are lazy and just sit around all day. Idem for retirement. Anyway I highly recommend trying it out. Even if you end up doing nothing much for the duration it will teach you something about yourself, and maybe even reduce or eliminate your apprehension of spending time with yourself and your thoughts.

mschuster91 4y ago

People will work nevertheless - they just will do work unappreciated by capitalism: they will raise children (a large part of why birth rates have dropped is because it's absolutely impossible to raise children on two or more full time jobs), they will get into creative work (make music or art, write books, ...), they will take care of their elderly again instead of shoving them into "care homes", they will create open-source software, they will be managing their investments, they will work in whatever form of charity... > It forces us to get out of bed in the morning I'm European, even when I have vacation (yes, we actually have vacation) I still regularly get up out of bed. Medieval peasants also got out of bed.

chasebank 4y ago
I'd bet that most people, in fact, would sit on the couch and do nothing if given the chance. Most people are lazy. Most people are fat. Most people will take the path of least resistance and just do nothing. Medieval peasants didn't have television, internet and video games to isolate them. Humans are social creatures. As much as HN loves working remote, for most people, especially introverts, I'd wager it's terrible for their longterm health and mental state.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > I'd bet that most people, in fact, would sit on the couch and do nothing if given the chance. The data on UBI experiments [1] suggest that you may well lose the bet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots

ornornor 4y ago

Speak for yourself. I’d be the happiest if I didn’t have to work another day in my life. It doesn’t mean I’d be wasting away on the couch, just that I’d be able to do what I want and not the intersection of what pays/what I can tolerate. I don’t think people need work to live full lives. But it’s like remote work: why dictate everyone’s preferences rather than letting each person choose for themselves like an adult? There are many worthwhile things to pursue that a capitalistic society doesn’t value. I don’t think I need a boss coercing me to do mildly stupid and useless things to make some shareholders even richer to live a full life. But I’ve got rent to pay (so that some investors get richer) and so I must work, for now. I don’t consider it a source of personal fulfillment.

gnarbarian 4y ago
have you ever tried this? what was the longest stretch you had without a job?
- ChoGGi 4y ago
  In retirement you either find a hobby or fade away.
- ornornor 4y ago
  I have. Was not working for 3–6 months stretches throughout my life, recently 18 months.
  - jsrcout 4y ago
    Could I ask how you generally spent your time then? I've always wanted to try it, but fear succumbing to terminal couch potato syndrome. (Ideally I'd be a "maker" of some sort, do a lot of travel and hiking, yadda yadda).
    - ornornor 4y ago
      It’s not so black and white. I had weeks on end where I’d do nothing special like watching tv shows or playing games all day. But I think I’d have these stretches anyway whether I worked or not at the time. The rest of the time was spent reading many more books than when working, building side projects just for fun (sometimes even to completion, sometimes just to try or learn something). I learnt about building and maintaining bicycles (started rom not knowing a thing to having repaired and built many bicycles now), worked on home improvement projects I had set aside while working because I had “no time” (rather no energy left). I did hike some but I prefer cycling so went on loooong bike rides. Had more time for my family as well (just spending time together doing whatever with no pressure or fomo that the weekend is over soon). Also visited a bunch of museums and nearby cities and countries because all of sudden I could travel off peak for 1/3 of the cost and go places when it isn’t crowded. But all this is very personal. It might not be what you’re interested in at all. The general point I think is that you might have a few weeks or months of couch potatoing (especially if you’ve worked all your life and never took a really multi months break) but I am convinced you’ll eventually find something worthwhile to you to do. Nobody who is healthy enjoys spending months or years on their couch. I think people in that situation have other issues that should be addressed (mental health, depression, hormones, whatever). I don’t buy into the narrative that people without job are lazy and just sit around all day. Idem for retirement. Anyway I highly recommend trying it out. Even if you end up doing nothing much for the duration it will teach you something about yourself, and maybe even reduce or eliminate your apprehension of spending time with yourself and your thoughts.