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I think the picture is pretty clear at this point and further discussion is pretty pointless as it just results in the same points keep being brought up: Junio

I think the picture is pretty clear at this point and further discussion is pretty pointless as it just results in the same points keep being brought up: Junior/single/ADHD/work-is-social-circle: REMOTE BAD Senior/married (esp with kids)/prefers-non-work-social-circle: REMOTE GOOD

suzzer99 4y ago
Yeah that's basically it. I'm single/senior/ADHD/work-was-social-circle (at previous job). Hate remote full time.
repeekad 4y ago
But then how do companies capture both? Offices with only junior, single, social seekers kind of defeats all the benefits that those people are searching for. Do we just leave the first group behind to better benefit the second group?
- gedy 4y ago
  I'd gladly live near office if I could afford a decent house and schools for a family. Companies won't pay that to make it happen, so yes, I guess it's sorry/not sorry junior devs?
- treis 4y ago
  I don't think you do. This falls under "irreconcilable differences" and the solution is for people to work at companies that match their preferences.
- granshaw 4y ago
  Companies will just have to accept more of one of the other depending on their policies. Alternatively they could become such an attractive place to work via other factors that they can attract employees whether remote or not
- philippejara 4y ago
  I'd be willing to bet a lot more would prefer to have only remote than only in person work, on both demographics. And even if not, seniors are just more important to retain anyway.
- ffggffggj 4y ago
  If companies want people to come into the office, they could pay them more and make it a condition of employment. In some sense they were getting a free ride for a long time by forcing senior employees to waste hours commuting for the benefits of in person mentorship. After all, upskilling junior engineers benefits the company much more than the senior engineer who is taking time away from doing stuff relevant to their own technical skills. Now the market has shifted: you want that, you pay more for it.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    And make the conditions not suck! At the very very least this means an office with a door that closes? And ideally blinds on interior windows. I’ve been remote for 8 years now and doubt I could ever go back, but above would be like a bare minimum to even consider - that and a minimum of a 25% comp bump over a remote option.
nibbleshifter 4y ago
Senior/married/ADHD/work-was-social-circle: I fucking love remote work, I'm straight up never going back to an office.
fsociety 4y ago
I have ADHD and greatly prefer remote as I can tailor my office how I like, and can break up my day as I like.
jitix 4y ago
I think the main determinant is the last part. For me, Senior/Single/ADHD/prefers-non-work-social-circle: REMOTE GOOD But the issue raised in this thread is very real, with full remote I've see both junior training as well as new employee ramp up considerably slowed down, and there's no clear alternative to knowledge gained from random hallway conversations.
zeroonetwothree 4y ago
I’m senior/married/kids and I hate full time remote. I don’t want to go in every day but 2-3 days a week is great. I just find it very hard to connect with people over screens.
seneca 4y ago
I think this is pretty accurate other than the ADHD part. Work from home is vastly superior to the distractions of an office (especially open offices) for me. At home, I have much more control over interruptions and noise, and completely eliminate the constant activity around me. I actually never realized how badly ADHD hurt my productivity until I started working remotely and the constant distractions severely decreased.
- suzzer99 4y ago
  I'm one of those ADHD people that needs chaos around me to focus. So open offices work great for me. I recently read that this is a thing with some people, but I can't remember the term.
  - granshaw 4y ago
    I’ve read alot of anecdotes from ADHDs saying that they can’t stay on task at home given that, you know, they’re at home and no one’s watching But I wouldn’t know what the breakdown would be between the two

suzzer99 4y ago

Yeah that's basically it. I'm single/senior/ADHD/work-was-social-circle (at previous job). Hate remote full time.

repeekad 4y ago

But then how do companies capture both? Offices with only junior, single, social seekers kind of defeats all the benefits that those people are searching for. Do we just leave the first group behind to better benefit the second group?

gedy 4y ago
I'd gladly live near office if I could afford a decent house and schools for a family. Companies won't pay that to make it happen, so yes, I guess it's sorry/not sorry junior devs?
treis 4y ago
I don't think you do. This falls under "irreconcilable differences" and the solution is for people to work at companies that match their preferences.
granshaw 4y ago
Companies will just have to accept more of one of the other depending on their policies. Alternatively they could become such an attractive place to work via other factors that they can attract employees whether remote or not
philippejara 4y ago
I'd be willing to bet a lot more would prefer to have only remote than only in person work, on both demographics. And even if not, seniors are just more important to retain anyway.
ffggffggj 4y ago
If companies want people to come into the office, they could pay them more and make it a condition of employment. In some sense they were getting a free ride for a long time by forcing senior employees to waste hours commuting for the benefits of in person mentorship. After all, upskilling junior engineers benefits the company much more than the senior engineer who is taking time away from doing stuff relevant to their own technical skills. Now the market has shifted: you want that, you pay more for it.
- TylerE 4y ago
  And make the conditions not suck! At the very very least this means an office with a door that closes? And ideally blinds on interior windows. I’ve been remote for 8 years now and doubt I could ever go back, but above would be like a bare minimum to even consider - that and a minimum of a 25% comp bump over a remote option.

nibbleshifter 4y ago

Senior/married/ADHD/work-was-social-circle: I fucking love remote work, I'm straight up never going back to an office.

fsociety 4y ago

I have ADHD and greatly prefer remote as I can tailor my office how I like, and can break up my day as I like.

jitix 4y ago

I think the main determinant is the last part. For me, Senior/Single/ADHD/prefers-non-work-social-circle: REMOTE GOOD But the issue raised in this thread is very real, with full remote I've see both junior training as well as new employee ramp up considerably slowed down, and there's no clear alternative to knowledge gained from random hallway conversations.

zeroonetwothree 4y ago

I’m senior/married/kids and I hate full time remote. I don’t want to go in every day but 2-3 days a week is great. I just find it very hard to connect with people over screens.

seneca 4y ago

I think this is pretty accurate other than the ADHD part. Work from home is vastly superior to the distractions of an office (especially open offices) for me. At home, I have much more control over interruptions and noise, and completely eliminate the constant activity around me. I actually never realized how badly ADHD hurt my productivity until I started working remotely and the constant distractions severely decreased.

suzzer99 4y ago
I'm one of those ADHD people that needs chaos around me to focus. So open offices work great for me. I recently read that this is a thing with some people, but I can't remember the term.
- granshaw 4y ago
  I’ve read alot of anecdotes from ADHDs saying that they can’t stay on task at home given that, you know, they’re at home and no one’s watching But I wouldn’t know what the breakdown would be between the two