3 ms·

It's not just devkits being cheap (there have been plenty of knockoff cheap ST boards) its * integrated WiFi/BT with no/near zero extra engineering needed * g

by ilyt 4y ago

It's not just devkits being cheap (there have been plenty of knockoff cheap ST boards) its * integrated WiFi/BT with no/near zero extra engineering needed * generous amount of RAM/Flash so you can afford to be sloppy * SDK making it fast to get to the "the wifi is working and I can get on with my development" * momentum from ESP8266 that already (due to same "super cheap with wifi") had a chunk of market. Even now in middle of chipaggedon you can get WIFI/BT breakout board for like $3-5. That's not "just" "cheap enough for hobbyist breadboard", that's cheap enough to get the whole product built around. I think partly due to how cheap WiFi/BT has become the likes of Zigbee didn't got as popular as they probably should, between licensing costs it was just cheaper for IoT companies to not touch it, even if it would make more sense in places.

psychphysic 4y ago
Also Arduino IDE programmable fairly early on. Before boards manager stuff iirc. It went from hackaday being lol you can use this WiFi module like a MCU. To why would you ever do anything else?
phpisthebest 4y ago
in IoT wifi became commerically successful over zigbee for 2 reasons, the cost was not one of them IMO 1. Vendors want Cloud control over the product, they want it to phone home. Zigbee is built for Local Control 2. Consumers prefer "hub free" products that just "work", They are willing to give up privacy, security and possible performance issues for that convenience. They do not think or care about what will happen when their shitty comcast service breaks for the 100th time this year, or if the IoT vendor is hacked, they want to pull out of the box, and have an app connect it in 2 seconds via a QR Code so they can blink the light quickly and not have a fuss about with a hub. WiFi is better than Zigbee at both of these things. Zigbee is beter for home automation where you want Local Control, and security. Local control and security has been losing that battle though the tide seems to be turning lately (I hope )
- tinco 4y ago
  I don't see the advantage of Zigbee for local control. Implementing local control over wifi is just as easy and can even work without a hub. I'm designing a custom automation system for the ventilation in my house and I failed to discover any reason to use Zigbee.
  - mrWiz 4y ago
    I think their point was that WiFi devices can be made cloud-only (or de-facto so by limiting what can be done locally) but that is hard/impossible with ZigBee, so companies will tend to standardize on WiFi. This will mostly be cloud-based, but this will push non-cloud options that direction as well.
    - jakewins 4y ago
      Yeah. I made the mistake of purchasing a “Wi-Fi controllable” mini split from Menards, not realizing there is no way to control it without internet access.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    Why do you believe WiFi is easier for local control than Zigbee. WiFi is more complex to setup and consumes alot more power. WiFi you have all kinds of underlying network issues to setup that do not happen or you do not have to account for like WiFi, things like IP Address, Routing, vLAN's, Firewalls, Ports, etc None of that is a problem for Zigbee. >>I'm designing a custom automation system for the ventilation in my house and I failed to discover any reason to use Zigbee Then you are not looking very hard or do not value Dependability and security. Matter will likely absorb both Zigbee and WiFi anyway as Google, Amazon, and Apple are all backing Matter
    - thrashh 4y ago
      WiFi may be be complex and power hungry, and I’ve had the displeasure of trying to build low-power IoT devices with it, but you can easily put in the time and effort to build a rock-solid future-proofed IP network. My home Zigbee and Z-Wave networks have never come as close in reliability or versatility as my home IP network. I can always put in money incrementally to increase bandwidth or lower latency because the commercial off-the-shelf world for IP is so big — I can do point-to-point microwave links or send my IP network over 120V. And I know for sure, IP networks will never ever be deprecated. I have some stage lights (just for fun - home light shows) — they speak DMX and not IP, but I just encapsulate DMX over IP and bam, a data connection anywhere in the house without extra data lines. I can send video over IP or make up my own protocol and my IP network can handle it no problem (though maybe with some upgrades if I were to send a lot of video).
MisterTea 4y ago
> * generous amount of RAM/Flash so you can afford to be sloppy Actually, the major benefit is the ability to use higher level languages or interpreted languages such as python and js. It also allows for more complex network stacks and protocols.

by ilyt 4y ago

psychphysic 4y ago

Also Arduino IDE programmable fairly early on. Before boards manager stuff iirc. It went from hackaday being lol you can use this WiFi module like a MCU. To why would you ever do anything else?

phpisthebest 4y ago

in IoT wifi became commerically successful over zigbee for 2 reasons, the cost was not one of them IMO 1. Vendors want Cloud control over the product, they want it to phone home. Zigbee is built for Local Control 2. Consumers prefer "hub free" products that just "work", They are willing to give up privacy, security and possible performance issues for that convenience. They do not think or care about what will happen when their shitty comcast service breaks for the 100th time this year, or if the IoT vendor is hacked, they want to pull out of the box, and have an app connect it in 2 seconds via a QR Code so they can blink the light quickly and not have a fuss about with a hub. WiFi is better than Zigbee at both of these things. Zigbee is beter for home automation where you want Local Control, and security. Local control and security has been losing that battle though the tide seems to be turning lately (I hope )

tinco 4y ago
I don't see the advantage of Zigbee for local control. Implementing local control over wifi is just as easy and can even work without a hub. I'm designing a custom automation system for the ventilation in my house and I failed to discover any reason to use Zigbee.
- mrWiz 4y ago
  I think their point was that WiFi devices can be made cloud-only (or de-facto so by limiting what can be done locally) but that is hard/impossible with ZigBee, so companies will tend to standardize on WiFi. This will mostly be cloud-based, but this will push non-cloud options that direction as well.
  - jakewins 4y ago
    Yeah. I made the mistake of purchasing a “Wi-Fi controllable” mini split from Menards, not realizing there is no way to control it without internet access.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Why do you believe WiFi is easier for local control than Zigbee. WiFi is more complex to setup and consumes alot more power. WiFi you have all kinds of underlying network issues to setup that do not happen or you do not have to account for like WiFi, things like IP Address, Routing, vLAN's, Firewalls, Ports, etc None of that is a problem for Zigbee. >>I'm designing a custom automation system for the ventilation in my house and I failed to discover any reason to use Zigbee Then you are not looking very hard or do not value Dependability and security. Matter will likely absorb both Zigbee and WiFi anyway as Google, Amazon, and Apple are all backing Matter
  - thrashh 4y ago
    WiFi may be be complex and power hungry, and I’ve had the displeasure of trying to build low-power IoT devices with it, but you can easily put in the time and effort to build a rock-solid future-proofed IP network. My home Zigbee and Z-Wave networks have never come as close in reliability or versatility as my home IP network. I can always put in money incrementally to increase bandwidth or lower latency because the commercial off-the-shelf world for IP is so big — I can do point-to-point microwave links or send my IP network over 120V. And I know for sure, IP networks will never ever be deprecated. I have some stage lights (just for fun - home light shows) — they speak DMX and not IP, but I just encapsulate DMX over IP and bam, a data connection anywhere in the house without extra data lines. I can send video over IP or make up my own protocol and my IP network can handle it no problem (though maybe with some upgrades if I were to send a lot of video).

MisterTea 4y ago

> * generous amount of RAM/Flash so you can afford to be sloppy Actually, the major benefit is the ability to use higher level languages or interpreted languages such as python and js. It also allows for more complex network stacks and protocols.