6 ms·

Co-sleeping has much more of a basis in human history. The challenge is transitioning.

by robg 4y ago

lazide 4y ago
And SIDS.
- voisin 4y ago
  Source? Everything I’ve read has shown this to be more of an urban legend if anything. Most SIDS deaths related to cosleeping involved alcohol or drugs. SIDS was actually found to be reduced due to breathing regulation matching that of the parent.
  - lazide 4y ago
    https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e2022057991/188305/Evidence-Base-for-2022-Updated-Recommendations-for https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e20220... Not that I saw. The change in sleeping habits due to public health campaigns seems to have cut frequency roughly in half, maybe even as much as 75% depending on how much reach you give the education credit for. Still the #1 cause of death for infants, but a lot less so now.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- derbOac 4y ago
  SIDS research is really difficult to interpret because of issues with medical records and problems with socioeconomic and cultural confounds. So, for example, cosleeping is much more common in immigrant populations and there are a lot of uncontrolled confounds related to access to healthcare, etc. Medical examiners are also hesitant to blame parents often and SIDS is frequently used to avoid assignments of responsibility. My spouse and I were really surprised by the actual research when we looked closely at it. It's much murkier than is commonly believed. My experiences in research and with pediatrics has led me to be deeply skeptical of a lot of common claims about infant and child sleep. I think a healthy dose of caution is warranted but I think a lot of this area is not quite what it seems I initially ( which I think is part of the point of the article).
  - lazide 4y ago
    For sure! Though might be worth reading https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e2022057991/188305/Evidence-Base-for-2022-Updated-Recommendations-for https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e20220... Covers most of this. And with education campaigns and shifts in habits, overall mortality not just ‘SIDS’ rates have dropped a lot. As to risk/reward, long term implications of things, etc. - I don’t know, and I don’t know anyone who reasonably can claim to know, but I also haven’t seen any reason to be concerned overall. Plenty of bigger, more concerning issues - like lack of healthy socialization among kids, etc. in many environments, reduction in exercise, anxiety issues, social media, etc.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  Co-sleeping and SIDS data is highly mangled. I will not trust medicine on this. It's just too vague and enough babies have been killed because "sleeping face down is better". If one of the strongest parental instinct is sleeping with your baby, I'll trust mother nature this time. Sorry, I'm particularly bitter about this. We have been pushed away from Co-sleeping due to poor education and when we did, we got from 2 hours of sleep per week to 8 hours per day, and a lot more cuddles.
  - xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
    It's mangled because humans are complex. A lot of the risks are from activities or issues that cause sleep problems -- alcohol, drugs, sleep apnea. What is the likelihood that a baby gets smothered? These all factor in. The risk decreases with age. Co-sleeping, generally, is much more dangerous than sleeping on their own in a proper crib. If it works for you, great. Some people take extraordinary steps to ensure it's safe, like removing pillows or fluffy comforters. It should not be generally recommended though. Any parent knows that nothing is entirely binary.
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
      I agree, but I disagree with your statement about being way safe. Research doesn't account for what happens when baby is in the crib and it doesn't sleep. So sure, you might have avoided SIDS, but the baby might die because the parent fell asleep while standing with the baby in their arms. P. S. Again sorry for my tone, I'm super angry for how the entire medicine treats Co-sleeping like a horrific thing So the research from my perspective is highly insufficient to prove anything. And yes, you can sleep while standing in the subway, by the way.
      - xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
        I don't think hypotheticals are very useful. A sleep deprived parent is a risk in any scenario. It's a moot point. The only point I was making is that it is generally agreed upon that a crib is safe for babies to sleep in. They can't fall out, get smothered, etc. Medicine treats co-sleeping horrifically because, by any measure, it's less safe. Few medical professionals will recommend, generally, anything associated with such risk. If you choose to co-sleep, I believe you should simply accept the risks. We can't pretend there are none. We can't reasonably ask the medical community to stop being harsh. Perhaps co-sleeping hasn't had it's "fed is best" moment that we've seen with bottle v breast, but I'm not sure it ever will. It's simply more risky.
mrsubletbot 4y ago
My wife and I co-sleep with our kids (2 & 4). I get just about a full sleep every night. If the kids wake up I imagine it's much less work to roll over and cuddle with them as opposed to getting out of bed, going to a separate room and then comforting them. Co-sleeping gets bonus points for giving me just a little extra sweet time with my kids, because before I know it they will be older and wanting their own space. They are only little once. I would recommend co-sleeping to almost anyone.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  Same age for my children and same recommendation. I actually sleep about 9 hours per night, after which I naturally wake up. I would also recommend going to bed at the same time as the children. Painful from one perspective, but always rested in the morning.
- jjulius 4y ago
  Forgive me here; I'm approaching this from a place of ignorance and curiosity, and I hope I don't overstep any personal boundaries - both for you and myself! My wife and I had many reasons for why we ultimately chose not to co-sleep. One of those reasons was our sex life. I don't pretend to know what the "norm"/average is, but it's frequent for us, 3-4 times per week, and at the risk of TMI, it can be fairly... involved. We know a few couples who co-sleep and I've always been curious how, or hell, even if, it has impacted their sexual relationships. Clearly it works for them (and you) and that's great! I would just be interested, if you're comfortable sharing, to hear what your experience has been here.
  - wmeredith 4y ago
    The average is about once per week: https://www.prevention.com/sex/relationships/a24846275/how-often-do-couples-have-sex/ https://www.prevention.com/sex/relationships/a24846275/how-o... From personal experience: after we had kids, sex became a lot more about opportunity than any particular place (our bed) and time (at night). It was that way for a while. Now, they're a little more grown up, and things are the way they were before. Everything is a phase.
cycrutchfield 4y ago
Infants dying also has much more of a basis in human history

Co-sleeping has much more of a basis in human history. The challenge is transitioning.

by robg 4y ago

Co-sleeping has much more of a basis in human history. The challenge is transitioning.

lazide 4y ago

And SIDS.

voisin 4y ago
Source? Everything I’ve read has shown this to be more of an urban legend if anything. Most SIDS deaths related to cosleeping involved alcohol or drugs. SIDS was actually found to be reduced due to breathing regulation matching that of the parent.
- lazide 4y ago
  https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e2022057991/188305/Evidence-Base-for-2022-Updated-Recommendations-for https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e20220... Not that I saw. The change in sleeping habits due to public health campaigns seems to have cut frequency roughly in half, maybe even as much as 75% depending on how much reach you give the education credit for. Still the #1 cause of death for infants, but a lot less so now.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
derbOac 4y ago
SIDS research is really difficult to interpret because of issues with medical records and problems with socioeconomic and cultural confounds. So, for example, cosleeping is much more common in immigrant populations and there are a lot of uncontrolled confounds related to access to healthcare, etc. Medical examiners are also hesitant to blame parents often and SIDS is frequently used to avoid assignments of responsibility. My spouse and I were really surprised by the actual research when we looked closely at it. It's much murkier than is commonly believed. My experiences in research and with pediatrics has led me to be deeply skeptical of a lot of common claims about infant and child sleep. I think a healthy dose of caution is warranted but I think a lot of this area is not quite what it seems I initially ( which I think is part of the point of the article).
- lazide 4y ago
  For sure! Though might be worth reading https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e2022057991/188305/Evidence-Base-for-2022-Updated-Recommendations-for https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/1/e20220... Covers most of this. And with education campaigns and shifts in habits, overall mortality not just ‘SIDS’ rates have dropped a lot. As to risk/reward, long term implications of things, etc. - I don’t know, and I don’t know anyone who reasonably can claim to know, but I also haven’t seen any reason to be concerned overall. Plenty of bigger, more concerning issues - like lack of healthy socialization among kids, etc. in many environments, reduction in exercise, anxiety issues, social media, etc.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
Co-sleeping and SIDS data is highly mangled. I will not trust medicine on this. It's just too vague and enough babies have been killed because "sleeping face down is better". If one of the strongest parental instinct is sleeping with your baby, I'll trust mother nature this time. Sorry, I'm particularly bitter about this. We have been pushed away from Co-sleeping due to poor education and when we did, we got from 2 hours of sleep per week to 8 hours per day, and a lot more cuddles.
- xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
  It's mangled because humans are complex. A lot of the risks are from activities or issues that cause sleep problems -- alcohol, drugs, sleep apnea. What is the likelihood that a baby gets smothered? These all factor in. The risk decreases with age. Co-sleeping, generally, is much more dangerous than sleeping on their own in a proper crib. If it works for you, great. Some people take extraordinary steps to ensure it's safe, like removing pillows or fluffy comforters. It should not be generally recommended though. Any parent knows that nothing is entirely binary.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
    I agree, but I disagree with your statement about being way safe. Research doesn't account for what happens when baby is in the crib and it doesn't sleep. So sure, you might have avoided SIDS, but the baby might die because the parent fell asleep while standing with the baby in their arms. P. S. Again sorry for my tone, I'm super angry for how the entire medicine treats Co-sleeping like a horrific thing So the research from my perspective is highly insufficient to prove anything. And yes, you can sleep while standing in the subway, by the way.
    - xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
      I don't think hypotheticals are very useful. A sleep deprived parent is a risk in any scenario. It's a moot point. The only point I was making is that it is generally agreed upon that a crib is safe for babies to sleep in. They can't fall out, get smothered, etc. Medicine treats co-sleeping horrifically because, by any measure, it's less safe. Few medical professionals will recommend, generally, anything associated with such risk. If you choose to co-sleep, I believe you should simply accept the risks. We can't pretend there are none. We can't reasonably ask the medical community to stop being harsh. Perhaps co-sleeping hasn't had it's "fed is best" moment that we've seen with bottle v breast, but I'm not sure it ever will. It's simply more risky.

mrsubletbot 4y ago

My wife and I co-sleep with our kids (2 & 4). I get just about a full sleep every night. If the kids wake up I imagine it's much less work to roll over and cuddle with them as opposed to getting out of bed, going to a separate room and then comforting them. Co-sleeping gets bonus points for giving me just a little extra sweet time with my kids, because before I know it they will be older and wanting their own space. They are only little once. I would recommend co-sleeping to almost anyone.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
Same age for my children and same recommendation. I actually sleep about 9 hours per night, after which I naturally wake up. I would also recommend going to bed at the same time as the children. Painful from one perspective, but always rested in the morning.
jjulius 4y ago
Forgive me here; I'm approaching this from a place of ignorance and curiosity, and I hope I don't overstep any personal boundaries - both for you and myself! My wife and I had many reasons for why we ultimately chose not to co-sleep. One of those reasons was our sex life. I don't pretend to know what the "norm"/average is, but it's frequent for us, 3-4 times per week, and at the risk of TMI, it can be fairly... involved. We know a few couples who co-sleep and I've always been curious how, or hell, even if, it has impacted their sexual relationships. Clearly it works for them (and you) and that's great! I would just be interested, if you're comfortable sharing, to hear what your experience has been here.
- wmeredith 4y ago
  The average is about once per week: https://www.prevention.com/sex/relationships/a24846275/how-often-do-couples-have-sex/ https://www.prevention.com/sex/relationships/a24846275/how-o... From personal experience: after we had kids, sex became a lot more about opportunity than any particular place (our bed) and time (at night). It was that way for a while. Now, they're a little more grown up, and things are the way they were before. Everything is a phase.

cycrutchfield 4y ago

Infants dying also has much more of a basis in human history