5 ms·

It's not that different in Singapore which is supposedly a much more humane nation.

by mgaunard 4y ago

beebeepka 4y ago
They hang people for dealing drugs. Does not fit the much more humane narrative
- ejb999 4y ago
  on the other hand, the USA has close to 100K drug overdose deaths per year and singapore has close to none - not sure we are being very humane in the USA by allowing so many people to die from a preventable causes - maybe singapore is harsh in their methods, but maybe we should learn something.
  - newaccount74 4y ago
    The US has tried to be "harsh" on drug dealers for decades, and it hasn't really fixed a thing. Maybe they should just stop prescribing opioids, for a start.
    - Xylakant 4y ago
      It’s not even the prescription opioids alone - germany has a similar prescription rate for opioids as the US (or at least had for a very long time), and we still don’t see the same effect. The way these treatments are administered and checked upon matters, too as well as the underlying social dynamics.
    - olivermarks 4y ago
      How has 'the US tried to be "harsh" on drug dealers for decades'? In San Francisco the Honduran drug dealers gather around luxury SUVs for catered meal breaks before resuming their murderous work. We are currently wildly out of control. Enough Fentanyl was seized in California in 2022 to kill everyone in the USA twice. God only knows how much more got through and into people's bodies.
      - mcphage 4y ago
        > How has 'the US tried to be "harsh" on drug dealers for decades'? We have the highest incarceration rate in the world, for starters.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
        Check the amount of alcohol present on the shelves of US stores. There's enough to kill the roughly half-the-population who consume several times over. The point is not to compare alcohol & fentanyl, but to note that "enough X to kill Y" is a really bad way to think about quantities of drugs.
        olivermarks 4y ago
        Tell that to Newsom https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/12/23/california-seized-enough-fentanyl-to-potentially-kill-the-entire-population-of-north-america-twice/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/12/23/california-seized-enough-f...
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    It’s not like there isn’t some kind of middle ground - germany has about 1000 drug overdoses per year and we managed to get there without hanging people. Portugal, a country that has decriminalized drug consumption in 2001 has even better numbers, much lower than most other European countries. https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-deaths-in-portugal/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-dea... Tackling drug overdoses by hanging dealers doesn’t even try to address the underlying issues that cause drug usage and overdoses.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    That's a very strange and myopic view, only taking two countries and comparing 1 statistic and 1 element of drug enforcement. There's a huge list of cultural, demographic, political, sociological and historical factors to take into account here.
  - dave_sullivan 4y ago
    If heroin was legal and pure, there would be far fewer fentanyl overdose deaths. The number of deaths from not-fentanyl is low so calling it "drug overdose deaths" instead of "fentanyl overdose deaths" is disingenuous. We shouldn't learn anything from fascist Singapore.
  - Hnrobert42 4y ago
    Doesn’t SG tightly control their press? So how do we know how many overdose deaths they have? Also, they have a population of about 6M, including expats, compared to 300M in the US.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
hestefisk 4y ago
Very true. The working conditions for maids in Singapore are atrocious. Work 6 days per week, 14-16 hour days, salary Is SGD 1,000 / month on average. I live here as an expat (no maid, I refuse it) and my neighbours really treat their maids like 2nd class humans. There are often reports of maids being beaten up or abused by their “masters”.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I do not understand what maids could be doing for 14 to 16 hours per day for 6 days per week. Singapore abodes are small, and surely they have washers/dryers? Are they also serving as cooks, nannies, nurses, and shopping assistants?
  - vrc 4y ago
    Yes. At least from what I’ve seen. They do anything for the home. That’s similar to servants/maids in other countries I’ve seen.
  - hestefisk 4y ago
    In most homes they are nannies, dog walkers, shopping assistants, and cooks in addition to keeping the home clean and orderly.
- sshine 4y ago
  > no maid, I refuse it I've always been against hiring people to do my chores, but eventually I can only defend this from the perspective that doing my own chores makes me a better person. (Instinctively I don't want to do it, but morally I cannot justify not doing it now.) I don't believe that hiring servants is bad. Ultimately, it creates an opportunity for them as well. If you have a maid and pay them well, give them better than average working conditions, and don't punish them when you have emotional problems, you give them an opportunity to grow an alternate career on the side. If you "refuse to participate", that does not fundamentally create more equality in itself.
  - cyberlurker 4y ago
Foobar8568 4y ago
Or Hong-Kong. It's borderline slavery. Although in Hk most of the maid don't seem to suffer too much, I can imagine how worse it could be in Singapore considering the local culture and population.
- eunos 4y ago
  Really? From my country news, seems foreign workers sent to SG or HK fared better than those sent to SA and M'sia.

It's not that different in Singapore which is supposedly a much more humane nation.

beebeepka 4y ago

They hang people for dealing drugs. Does not fit the much more humane narrative

ejb999 4y ago
on the other hand, the USA has close to 100K drug overdose deaths per year and singapore has close to none - not sure we are being very humane in the USA by allowing so many people to die from a preventable causes - maybe singapore is harsh in their methods, but maybe we should learn something.
- newaccount74 4y ago
  The US has tried to be "harsh" on drug dealers for decades, and it hasn't really fixed a thing. Maybe they should just stop prescribing opioids, for a start.
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    It’s not even the prescription opioids alone - germany has a similar prescription rate for opioids as the US (or at least had for a very long time), and we still don’t see the same effect. The way these treatments are administered and checked upon matters, too as well as the underlying social dynamics.
  - olivermarks 4y ago
    How has 'the US tried to be "harsh" on drug dealers for decades'? In San Francisco the Honduran drug dealers gather around luxury SUVs for catered meal breaks before resuming their murderous work. We are currently wildly out of control. Enough Fentanyl was seized in California in 2022 to kill everyone in the USA twice. God only knows how much more got through and into people's bodies.
    - mcphage 4y ago
      > How has 'the US tried to be "harsh" on drug dealers for decades'? We have the highest incarceration rate in the world, for starters.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
      Check the amount of alcohol present on the shelves of US stores. There's enough to kill the roughly half-the-population who consume several times over. The point is not to compare alcohol & fentanyl, but to note that "enough X to kill Y" is a really bad way to think about quantities of drugs.
      - olivermarks 4y ago
        Tell that to Newsom https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/12/23/california-seized-enough-fentanyl-to-potentially-kill-the-entire-population-of-north-america-twice/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/12/23/california-seized-enough-f...
- Xylakant 4y ago
  It’s not like there isn’t some kind of middle ground - germany has about 1000 drug overdoses per year and we managed to get there without hanging people. Portugal, a country that has decriminalized drug consumption in 2001 has even better numbers, much lower than most other European countries. https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-deaths-in-portugal/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-dea... Tackling drug overdoses by hanging dealers doesn’t even try to address the underlying issues that cause drug usage and overdoses.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  That's a very strange and myopic view, only taking two countries and comparing 1 statistic and 1 element of drug enforcement. There's a huge list of cultural, demographic, political, sociological and historical factors to take into account here.
- dave_sullivan 4y ago
  If heroin was legal and pure, there would be far fewer fentanyl overdose deaths. The number of deaths from not-fentanyl is low so calling it "drug overdose deaths" instead of "fentanyl overdose deaths" is disingenuous. We shouldn't learn anything from fascist Singapore.
- Hnrobert42 4y ago
  Doesn’t SG tightly control their press? So how do we know how many overdose deaths they have? Also, they have a population of about 6M, including expats, compared to 300M in the US.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

hestefisk 4y ago

Very true. The working conditions for maids in Singapore are atrocious. Work 6 days per week, 14-16 hour days, salary Is SGD 1,000 / month on average. I live here as an expat (no maid, I refuse it) and my neighbours really treat their maids like 2nd class humans. There are often reports of maids being beaten up or abused by their “masters”.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
I do not understand what maids could be doing for 14 to 16 hours per day for 6 days per week. Singapore abodes are small, and surely they have washers/dryers? Are they also serving as cooks, nannies, nurses, and shopping assistants?
- vrc 4y ago
  Yes. At least from what I’ve seen. They do anything for the home. That’s similar to servants/maids in other countries I’ve seen.
- hestefisk 4y ago
  In most homes they are nannies, dog walkers, shopping assistants, and cooks in addition to keeping the home clean and orderly.
sshine 4y ago
> no maid, I refuse it I've always been against hiring people to do my chores, but eventually I can only defend this from the perspective that doing my own chores makes me a better person. (Instinctively I don't want to do it, but morally I cannot justify not doing it now.) I don't believe that hiring servants is bad. Ultimately, it creates an opportunity for them as well. If you have a maid and pay them well, give them better than average working conditions, and don't punish them when you have emotional problems, you give them an opportunity to grow an alternate career on the side. If you "refuse to participate", that does not fundamentally create more equality in itself.
- cyberlurker 4y ago

Foobar8568 4y ago

Or Hong-Kong. It's borderline slavery. Although in Hk most of the maid don't seem to suffer too much, I can imagine how worse it could be in Singapore considering the local culture and population.

eunos 4y ago
Really? From my country news, seems foreign workers sent to SG or HK fared better than those sent to SA and M'sia.