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I've tended to see the term "plant-based" as synonymous with "vegan and/or vegetarian", used when there's variability or uncertainty about which of those more s

I've tended to see the term "plant-based" as synonymous with "vegan and/or vegetarian", used when there's variability or uncertainty about which of those more specific terms would apply. "Meatless" would also suffice but I think "plant-based" is used to emphasize what is present rather than absent. But I think the essay is right the term has become vaguer than that even, and my own understanding of it doesn't quite make sense.

solardev 4y ago
It's totally a marketing gimmick. Some of the "plant-based" brands mixed real meat in with the plant stuff: https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Article/2019/06/13/Tyson-unveils-blended-burgers-plant-based-nuggets-Alternative-protein-could-someday-be-a-billion-dollar-business-for-our-company https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Article/2019/06/13/Tyson-u... The marketers like "plant-based" because it's both in vogue and definitionally meaningless, much less precise than "vegan" (which itself is already imprecise, i.e., whether to include bugs killed in agriculture, or sugar processed with animal byproducts, etc.).
- chc 4y ago
  None of the examples in that article appear to use the term "plant-based" on their products, so it seems even those brands were respectful on the term. If anything, that seems like it makes the opposite case of "plant-based is definitionally meaningless."
  - solardev 4y ago
    They were released at the same time as the height of the plant-based craze. Plant-based is not a legally protected term the way that, say "organic" is (neither is "vegan", for that matter). Different marketers and/or third-party certifiers will use that term how they wish. And "made with plants" is already awfully similar, enough to cause confusion in the media: https://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/21460-tyson-introduces-new-plant-based-blended-products https://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/21460-tyson-introduces-... Tyson was intentionally muddying the waters with the Raised & Rooted brand, which initially contained meat and eggs and eventually became completely plant, but under the same brand name and very similar packaging. It caused a lot of controversy at the time for violating the spirit -- if not the letter -- of "plant-based". Here's another example of a plant-based product with with real cheese: https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_351013af-154d-48f3-ac63-3b4f35303fac https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_351013af-154... (although I think they later changed the packaging on that to be clearer). I'm not saying things just to be a pedantic a-hole; as someone who's been vegan for a long time, seeing the plant-based products (especially frozen ones) hit the freezers but also hide animal ingredients was a very frustrating and confusing time. It's gotten a bit better now, I guess with enough consumer backlash, but for a couple of years there there were quite a lot of insidiously labeled products that you really had to scan the ingredients & allergens for no matter how they used the word "plant" on the front. What I'm saying is that it's ultimately a marketing term, not a strict definition of any sort. Nobody is enforcing plant-based violations. You have to look at the ingredients rather than the front of the packaging if you want to figure out what it actually has.
- roflyear 4y ago
  > whether to include bugs killed in agriculture That's pretty extreme, have to say! Haha. There are extreme people everywhere, have to try and find the consensus, which to me seems to mean "no animals were involved in processing this thing" and that means from the source, gathering it, to the testing of it, to distributing it (don't use cows to transport my impossible burgers, please). People aren't animals b/c they can technically choose to do work (like picking coffee) - hopefully no one is supporting slavery. I think you can call yourself vegan if you eat clams for example if ethically sourced (tho I don't have any interest in doing so, b/c the farming is very harmful from my understanding - but if you go clamming yourself, maybe ok?). I personally eat honey, but always local, b/c idk what happens at the industrial scale there and I like to support local businesses anyway. Animal byproducts should not be "vegan" imo - like if you use fish something to filter your beer. No good. But no, I don't really look up if my sugar is vegan or my beer is vegan... but I know of "vegan brands" and I will get those first over other brands. I think veganism is basically becoming "no, I don't ask constantly... but I never knowingly buy animal products, and I know of several brands that are vegan, and I buy them when I can" - which makes a lot of sense to me, but isn't quite the clean definition! I even have some wool clothes I wear. Hopefully that can be done ethically, because it doesn't kill the sheep, but... lots of those farms are not great for the little guys :( Veganism to me is supporting the reduction in the use of animal products. We use animals too much, and we don't need to.
mfer 4y ago
“Plant based” Is a popular marketing term for processed food. The plant based diet folks will tell you that this is basically junk food. They do this looking at what’s in the food and the science of it. They will tell you to eat plants instead of processed food.
- feoren 4y ago
  > They will tell you to eat plants instead of processed food. Just be very careful if you do this! Don't cut or chop the plants in any way, since that's technically processing it. Don't apply any form of heat -- applying heat is one of society's most common forms of industrial processing! Don't wash or clean the plant at all, as that is also a form of processing. You must carefully lower the whole plant down your esophagus into your stomach, but be warned! Human stomachs also attempt to process foods via dangerous acids and other chemicals! It takes deep concentration and meditation to prevent your stomach from processing your food; only with practice can you eat truly "un-processed" foods. And be aware of those scary genetically modified foods! Humans have been artificially changing the genetic code of plants and animals for 10,000 years! You must only eat paleo-foods: never anything that any human has ever selectively bred, or you're eating a GMO!! All your food must be sourced from the untouched wilds, never artificially manipulated by humans. The deep rainforests of Papua New Guinea is a good place for this. Only ever eat plants from Papua New Guinea, that the dinosaurs ate, never grown or touched by other humans, and completely whole, uncut, uncooked, uncleaned, and unprocessed in any way. Everyone else is being UNHEALTHY!! But you still need to be extra careful, because many foods contain chemicals!
  - mfer 4y ago
    If you look at the health of foods on our bodies, there is a difference between cooking/cutting/seasoning plants and what we do with factory processed foods. Taking things out of context to attack them doesn’t help you or anyone else be healthy.
wahnfrieden 4y ago
"Plant-based" in Japan often somehow still includes meat ingredients

solardev 4y ago

It's totally a marketing gimmick. Some of the "plant-based" brands mixed real meat in with the plant stuff: https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Article/2019/06/13/Tyson-unveils-blended-burgers-plant-based-nuggets-Alternative-protein-could-someday-be-a-billion-dollar-business-for-our-company https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Article/2019/06/13/Tyson-u... The marketers like "plant-based" because it's both in vogue and definitionally meaningless, much less precise than "vegan" (which itself is already imprecise, i.e., whether to include bugs killed in agriculture, or sugar processed with animal byproducts, etc.).

chc 4y ago
None of the examples in that article appear to use the term "plant-based" on their products, so it seems even those brands were respectful on the term. If anything, that seems like it makes the opposite case of "plant-based is definitionally meaningless."
- solardev 4y ago
  They were released at the same time as the height of the plant-based craze. Plant-based is not a legally protected term the way that, say "organic" is (neither is "vegan", for that matter). Different marketers and/or third-party certifiers will use that term how they wish. And "made with plants" is already awfully similar, enough to cause confusion in the media: https://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/21460-tyson-introduces-new-plant-based-blended-products https://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/21460-tyson-introduces-... Tyson was intentionally muddying the waters with the Raised & Rooted brand, which initially contained meat and eggs and eventually became completely plant, but under the same brand name and very similar packaging. It caused a lot of controversy at the time for violating the spirit -- if not the letter -- of "plant-based". Here's another example of a plant-based product with with real cheese: https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_351013af-154d-48f3-ac63-3b4f35303fac https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_351013af-154... (although I think they later changed the packaging on that to be clearer). I'm not saying things just to be a pedantic a-hole; as someone who's been vegan for a long time, seeing the plant-based products (especially frozen ones) hit the freezers but also hide animal ingredients was a very frustrating and confusing time. It's gotten a bit better now, I guess with enough consumer backlash, but for a couple of years there there were quite a lot of insidiously labeled products that you really had to scan the ingredients & allergens for no matter how they used the word "plant" on the front. What I'm saying is that it's ultimately a marketing term, not a strict definition of any sort. Nobody is enforcing plant-based violations. You have to look at the ingredients rather than the front of the packaging if you want to figure out what it actually has.
roflyear 4y ago
> whether to include bugs killed in agriculture That's pretty extreme, have to say! Haha. There are extreme people everywhere, have to try and find the consensus, which to me seems to mean "no animals were involved in processing this thing" and that means from the source, gathering it, to the testing of it, to distributing it (don't use cows to transport my impossible burgers, please). People aren't animals b/c they can technically choose to do work (like picking coffee) - hopefully no one is supporting slavery. I think you can call yourself vegan if you eat clams for example if ethically sourced (tho I don't have any interest in doing so, b/c the farming is very harmful from my understanding - but if you go clamming yourself, maybe ok?). I personally eat honey, but always local, b/c idk what happens at the industrial scale there and I like to support local businesses anyway. Animal byproducts should not be "vegan" imo - like if you use fish something to filter your beer. No good. But no, I don't really look up if my sugar is vegan or my beer is vegan... but I know of "vegan brands" and I will get those first over other brands. I think veganism is basically becoming "no, I don't ask constantly... but I never knowingly buy animal products, and I know of several brands that are vegan, and I buy them when I can" - which makes a lot of sense to me, but isn't quite the clean definition! I even have some wool clothes I wear. Hopefully that can be done ethically, because it doesn't kill the sheep, but... lots of those farms are not great for the little guys :( Veganism to me is supporting the reduction in the use of animal products. We use animals too much, and we don't need to.

mfer 4y ago

“Plant based” Is a popular marketing term for processed food. The plant based diet folks will tell you that this is basically junk food. They do this looking at what’s in the food and the science of it. They will tell you to eat plants instead of processed food.

feoren 4y ago
> They will tell you to eat plants instead of processed food. Just be very careful if you do this! Don't cut or chop the plants in any way, since that's technically processing it. Don't apply any form of heat -- applying heat is one of society's most common forms of industrial processing! Don't wash or clean the plant at all, as that is also a form of processing. You must carefully lower the whole plant down your esophagus into your stomach, but be warned! Human stomachs also attempt to process foods via dangerous acids and other chemicals! It takes deep concentration and meditation to prevent your stomach from processing your food; only with practice can you eat truly "un-processed" foods. And be aware of those scary genetically modified foods! Humans have been artificially changing the genetic code of plants and animals for 10,000 years! You must only eat paleo-foods: never anything that any human has ever selectively bred, or you're eating a GMO!! All your food must be sourced from the untouched wilds, never artificially manipulated by humans. The deep rainforests of Papua New Guinea is a good place for this. Only ever eat plants from Papua New Guinea, that the dinosaurs ate, never grown or touched by other humans, and completely whole, uncut, uncooked, uncleaned, and unprocessed in any way. Everyone else is being UNHEALTHY!! But you still need to be extra careful, because many foods contain chemicals!
- mfer 4y ago
  If you look at the health of foods on our bodies, there is a difference between cooking/cutting/seasoning plants and what we do with factory processed foods. Taking things out of context to attack them doesn’t help you or anyone else be healthy.

wahnfrieden 4y ago

"Plant-based" in Japan often somehow still includes meat ingredients