7 ms·

‘Plant based’ initially meant vegan, but vegan is a dirty word for some people, likely because a lot of the early vegan meat alternatives were ghastly. As a veg

‘Plant based’ initially meant vegan, but vegan is a dirty word for some people, likely because a lot of the early vegan meat alternatives were ghastly. As a vegan, I see a lot of labels boasting ‘plant-based’ but no mention of it being vegan or not, often not even on their website. That alone means I will not purchase. It’s either not vegan OR they’re scared to put that 5 letter word on their product. Market it as plant-based all you want but mention if it’s vegan or not somewhere, even on your website.

namdnay 4y ago
I personally like the “plant based” term, because for me “vegan” was always defined as a negative (vegans dont eat this and dont eat that), whereas plant-based just means what it says. In my experience in shops in the UK at least, there will always be a little “vegan” logo stuck on the packet as well
- ummonk 4y ago
  This strikes me as the start of a euphemism treadmill, given that the etymology of "vegan" is no more negative than "plant based".
  - catach 4y ago
    Over time, the flavors we associate with words usually comes from the contexts in which they are used, which can easily overpower their origins.
    - ummonk 4y ago
      Exactly, and I think the same context will become associated with "plant-based" if it is consistently used as a substitute for "vegan".
      - catach 4y ago
        Ah, I see now what you mean by "euphemism treadmill", and I agree that the framework is valid. If the term has a chance of avoiding the treadmill I suspect it'd be due to the awkwardness of identifying as such. "Vegan" can apply to both food and the people who consume just that food, but I don't see people calling themselves "plant-based" anytime soon. The tribal aspect of the context is potentially greatly diminished by removing that explicit identity.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- Accacin 4y ago
  I'm in the UK too, and find the plant-based phrase generally useful. For example, some double cream said 'plant-based' alternative and also had the Vegan logo. I've never really thought about it, but I assumed 'plant-based' was for products like cream that would have dairy and non-dairy alternative. Saying 'vegan' might imply it's only for vegans where plant based just means 'non-dairy' and might be billed as more inclusive. I'm not too concerned about it also possibly including eggs, as I always check for vegan icon or read ingredients.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Veganism is an extreme and therefore it tends to attract people who are seeking extremes. This brings a rather negative image because there's always a part of intolerance and/or unreasonableness in extremes. I think most people will think that, for instance, not eating honey or eggs is too extreme.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Most people, when made aware of how almost all of the eggs they consume are produced, would be a little uncomfortable at least. Mind you I still eat plenty of eggs, but I entirely grok a person not wanting to consume the output of industrial egg production. I try to buy eggs with adjectives added to the label about how nice they are to their hens knowing full well that these are of limited benefit. Honey, on the other hand, I don't understand a moral objection to, but also who cares if somebody doesn't want to eat honey?
    - FeistySkink 4y ago
      A bit more info about bees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSYgDssQUtA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSYgDssQUtA
  - sheusndudn 4y ago
    Honey and eggs are not comparable. Maybe honey is extreme, but watch a youtube video of them shredding male live chicks that won't lay eggs so aren't useful is the closest thing to hell i've ever seen.
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      There is a difference between being against cruelty against animals and not eating any eggs. Hens will lay eggs. That's what they do naturally and if those eggs are not fertilised they will rot and decay. In veganism you cannot eat those eggs no matter how pampered the hens are. That's obviously a personal decision, which I respect, but it should also be understandable that many people find this extreme (and not eating honey even more extreme).
- FeistySkink 4y ago
  Some cow milk producers label cow milk as plant-based. What exactly is it supposed to mean?
  - layer8 4y ago
    Do you have a photo of that? It’s somewhat hard to believe, and I didn’t find anything by googling.
CivBase 4y ago
> but vegan is a dirty word for some people, likely because a lot of the early vegan meat alternatives were ghastly Probably more to do with stereotypes of vegans themselves - ie. condescending, arrogant, self-righteous hippies. As a non-vegan, I think a lot of vegan food is actually really good. But as a rule of thumb I avoid vegan dishes that use substitutes for traditionally non-vegan dishes.
- mathieuh 4y ago
  I recently became vegan, and I compare it to being straight-edge (i.e. not taking drugs). I don’t think there is a moral aspect to taking drugs, and I disagree with the way straight-edge people invent one and talk down to people who take drugs. However, I do think there is a moral aspect to using animal products when other options exist. But, I also wasn’t vegan for most of my life, so I don’t think it’s for me to tell other people they are immoral, because that probably won’t get me very far in convincing them. Not sure if anyone else has had any thoughts like this, I’d be interested to hear how they reconciled this in their own minds, it’s still unresolved for me personally.
  - stcroixx 4y ago
    What exactly is unresolved? You want to convince others eating meat is immoral but feel that your meat eating past removes any standing you have to do that? Why should the general argument be diminished because of one persons behavior? If you were trying to convince me, that wouldn’t matter for me personally.
  - imw 4y ago
    In my experience, what does work is to lead with joy. I've found so much new life and enjoyment in my cooking since I went vegan. Cooking delicious food and sharing it with people is sometimes the best we can do.
    - inkcapmushroom 4y ago
      Yes, convince them to try roasted brussels sprouts or chicken fried tofu. That will change minds far quicker than preaching will.
tootie 4y ago
I think "vegan" also implies a lifestyle whereas you can favor plant-based food without being a full-time vegan.
drewg123 4y ago
If you're not buying it because of the case where they're scared to label something which is vegan as such, then you're part of the problem and you're hurting veganism. What matters is reducing climate impact, reducing animal cruelty, and the health benefits. What doesn't matter is your feelings about labels. By boycotting such products, you're reducing their market, potentially causing them to drop their plant based offering, and making it more difficult for people to eat vegan. That, in turn, reduces the number of vegans and hurts everybody.
- hobbitstan 4y ago
  If they go out of their way avoid saying it’s vegan then I won’t waste my time on it as it may not actually be vegan, despite the listed ingredients. It’s suspicious.
- californical 4y ago
  Why would they be scared to label it if it’s actually vegan? I can understand someone who feels morally about something not wanting to take a chance on something that the producer isn’t willing to back with a proper label
  - drewg123 4y ago
    I think its as the GP says "vegan is a dirty word for some people". Between a lot of vegans being meme-level obnoxious about their veganism, and early plant based products being horribly bad (Boca burger, I'm looking at you), veganism has tended to get a bad name.
lopis 4y ago
Plant-based never meant the same as vegan, unless you're only talking about food. Plant-based is rarely used outside of food.
weakfortress 4y ago
> a lot of early vegan meat alternatives were ghastly I think most people dislike vegan food because vegans eat it. Not because of the food. Vegans have done a number on their appearance to the public. Most people seem to have the same experience: how do you know someone is a vegan? Don't worry they'll tell you! (and chastise you for wanting to eat a steak) When I was in college every holiday, like clockwork, a brigade of vegans would descend on campus and hand out flyers explaining how problematic it was eating meat. You do that enough times and people just avoid anything associated with you out of spite.

namdnay 4y ago

I personally like the “plant based” term, because for me “vegan” was always defined as a negative (vegans dont eat this and dont eat that), whereas plant-based just means what it says. In my experience in shops in the UK at least, there will always be a little “vegan” logo stuck on the packet as well

ummonk 4y ago
This strikes me as the start of a euphemism treadmill, given that the etymology of "vegan" is no more negative than "plant based".
- catach 4y ago
  Over time, the flavors we associate with words usually comes from the contexts in which they are used, which can easily overpower their origins.
  - ummonk 4y ago
    Exactly, and I think the same context will become associated with "plant-based" if it is consistently used as a substitute for "vegan".
    - catach 4y ago
      Ah, I see now what you mean by "euphemism treadmill", and I agree that the framework is valid. If the term has a chance of avoiding the treadmill I suspect it'd be due to the awkwardness of identifying as such. "Vegan" can apply to both food and the people who consume just that food, but I don't see people calling themselves "plant-based" anytime soon. The tribal aspect of the context is potentially greatly diminished by removing that explicit identity.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
Accacin 4y ago
I'm in the UK too, and find the plant-based phrase generally useful. For example, some double cream said 'plant-based' alternative and also had the Vegan logo. I've never really thought about it, but I assumed 'plant-based' was for products like cream that would have dairy and non-dairy alternative. Saying 'vegan' might imply it's only for vegans where plant based just means 'non-dairy' and might be billed as more inclusive. I'm not too concerned about it also possibly including eggs, as I always check for vegan icon or read ingredients.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
Veganism is an extreme and therefore it tends to attract people who are seeking extremes. This brings a rather negative image because there's always a part of intolerance and/or unreasonableness in extremes. I think most people will think that, for instance, not eating honey or eggs is too extreme.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Most people, when made aware of how almost all of the eggs they consume are produced, would be a little uncomfortable at least. Mind you I still eat plenty of eggs, but I entirely grok a person not wanting to consume the output of industrial egg production. I try to buy eggs with adjectives added to the label about how nice they are to their hens knowing full well that these are of limited benefit. Honey, on the other hand, I don't understand a moral objection to, but also who cares if somebody doesn't want to eat honey?
  - FeistySkink 4y ago
    A bit more info about bees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSYgDssQUtA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSYgDssQUtA
- sheusndudn 4y ago
  Honey and eggs are not comparable. Maybe honey is extreme, but watch a youtube video of them shredding male live chicks that won't lay eggs so aren't useful is the closest thing to hell i've ever seen.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    There is a difference between being against cruelty against animals and not eating any eggs. Hens will lay eggs. That's what they do naturally and if those eggs are not fertilised they will rot and decay. In veganism you cannot eat those eggs no matter how pampered the hens are. That's obviously a personal decision, which I respect, but it should also be understandable that many people find this extreme (and not eating honey even more extreme).
FeistySkink 4y ago
Some cow milk producers label cow milk as plant-based. What exactly is it supposed to mean?
- layer8 4y ago
  Do you have a photo of that? It’s somewhat hard to believe, and I didn’t find anything by googling.

CivBase 4y ago

> but vegan is a dirty word for some people, likely because a lot of the early vegan meat alternatives were ghastly Probably more to do with stereotypes of vegans themselves - ie. condescending, arrogant, self-righteous hippies. As a non-vegan, I think a lot of vegan food is actually really good. But as a rule of thumb I avoid vegan dishes that use substitutes for traditionally non-vegan dishes.

mathieuh 4y ago
I recently became vegan, and I compare it to being straight-edge (i.e. not taking drugs). I don’t think there is a moral aspect to taking drugs, and I disagree with the way straight-edge people invent one and talk down to people who take drugs. However, I do think there is a moral aspect to using animal products when other options exist. But, I also wasn’t vegan for most of my life, so I don’t think it’s for me to tell other people they are immoral, because that probably won’t get me very far in convincing them. Not sure if anyone else has had any thoughts like this, I’d be interested to hear how they reconciled this in their own minds, it’s still unresolved for me personally.
- stcroixx 4y ago
  What exactly is unresolved? You want to convince others eating meat is immoral but feel that your meat eating past removes any standing you have to do that? Why should the general argument be diminished because of one persons behavior? If you were trying to convince me, that wouldn’t matter for me personally.
- imw 4y ago
  In my experience, what does work is to lead with joy. I've found so much new life and enjoyment in my cooking since I went vegan. Cooking delicious food and sharing it with people is sometimes the best we can do.
  - inkcapmushroom 4y ago
    Yes, convince them to try roasted brussels sprouts or chicken fried tofu. That will change minds far quicker than preaching will.

tootie 4y ago

I think "vegan" also implies a lifestyle whereas you can favor plant-based food without being a full-time vegan.

drewg123 4y ago

If you're not buying it because of the case where they're scared to label something which is vegan as such, then you're part of the problem and you're hurting veganism. What matters is reducing climate impact, reducing animal cruelty, and the health benefits. What doesn't matter is your feelings about labels. By boycotting such products, you're reducing their market, potentially causing them to drop their plant based offering, and making it more difficult for people to eat vegan. That, in turn, reduces the number of vegans and hurts everybody.

hobbitstan 4y ago
If they go out of their way avoid saying it’s vegan then I won’t waste my time on it as it may not actually be vegan, despite the listed ingredients. It’s suspicious.
californical 4y ago
Why would they be scared to label it if it’s actually vegan? I can understand someone who feels morally about something not wanting to take a chance on something that the producer isn’t willing to back with a proper label
- drewg123 4y ago
  I think its as the GP says "vegan is a dirty word for some people". Between a lot of vegans being meme-level obnoxious about their veganism, and early plant based products being horribly bad (Boca burger, I'm looking at you), veganism has tended to get a bad name.

lopis 4y ago

Plant-based never meant the same as vegan, unless you're only talking about food. Plant-based is rarely used outside of food.

weakfortress 4y ago

> a lot of early vegan meat alternatives were ghastly I think most people dislike vegan food because vegans eat it. Not because of the food. Vegans have done a number on their appearance to the public. Most people seem to have the same experience: how do you know someone is a vegan? Don't worry they'll tell you! (and chastise you for wanting to eat a steak) When I was in college every holiday, like clockwork, a brigade of vegans would descend on campus and hand out flyers explaining how problematic it was eating meat. You do that enough times and people just avoid anything associated with you out of spite.