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Something worth pointing out here is that according to levels.fyi, a tech lead there who has worked for 20 years has a TC of 174K. It’s unlikely their technical

by benced 4y ago

Something worth pointing out here is that according to levels.fyi, a tech lead there who has worked for 20 years has a TC of 174K. It’s unlikely their technical talent would be up to what you propose which is related to the apparent decision at Southwest to underinvest - by their own reckoning - in technology.

scarface74 4y ago
This again the HN tech bubble. That TC is around average for most senior software engineers in most corporations in most US cities in the US. And getting into a tech company and having high compensation doesn’t require “top talent”. Just the ability to memorize DS&A (junior to mid) and memorize system design and being able to regurgitate answers to behavioral questions showing “scope” and “impact”. It takes knowing two or three well known algorithms to implement the scheduling problem they are trying to solve and system design chops to know how to scale it. But, as far as having to be on hold for hours, that’s a staffing issue. Most of their issues are symptoms of poor management - not software engineers.
- benced 4y ago
  To be clear, I don’t think you can blame these software engineers. Management has decided the average value of a tech lead to them is about 175K and they are getting that quality of engineer. I think their current tech issues suggest that the value management is placing on engineers is lower than it should be. Like I said earlier in the thread - there are many bad engineers that are overpaid and many good engineers that are underpaid. On average though, compensation and quality are correlated. In the absence of additional information, compensation is the best metric we have to asses the quality of the underlying engineering talent. It also passes the sniff test - try using the Southwest Airlines app!
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Again, you are just as deep in your bubble as everyone else. There are 2.7 million developers in the US. The vast majority of them are paid between $80K-$170k. They are working in banks, government, smaller startups, etc. And it doesn’t take a $400K senior developer that can reverse a binary tree on the whiteboard while juggling bowling balls while riding a unicycle on a tightrope to make a mobile app. How much do you think Delta developers make in Atlanta (hint: they aren’t making over 200K). Their app is excellent. It never ceases to amaze me how little most people on HN know about compensation throughout the industry.
bumby 4y ago
1) These types of comments always make me cringe because it's built on an assumption that everyone is solely trying to optimize for income. I know plenty of people who would take a pay cut to continuously work on what they consider more interesting problems than, say, a social media app or basic CRUD app. 2) COLA matters. $174k in, say, Southwest HQ in Dallas is roughly equated to $422k in SV.
- benced 4y ago
  It’s ridiculous to suggest that compensation isn’t correlated with quality. There are many exceptions but it’s a good rule of thumb in the absence of additional information. It also just passes the sniff test - try comparing the Southwest Airlines app to the united airlines app. I don’t think COLA matters all that much. The reason SV pays such high salaries reflects the underlying higher productivity of those engineers. The fact that much of that income goes to landlords in the Bay Area is orthogonal to the underlying quality of the engineers.
  - bumby 4y ago
    Nobody is claiming they aren't correlated. The question is: how strong is the correlation? The OP seems to insinuate they are extremely correlated on account that it is the sole consideration in the comment. Like so many strong claims made online, it's an overly simplified mental model for something that is much more complex in reality. Like you said, we need more information before making strong claims.

by benced 4y ago

scarface74 4y ago

This again the HN tech bubble. That TC is around average for most senior software engineers in most corporations in most US cities in the US. And getting into a tech company and having high compensation doesn’t require “top talent”. Just the ability to memorize DS&A (junior to mid) and memorize system design and being able to regurgitate answers to behavioral questions showing “scope” and “impact”. It takes knowing two or three well known algorithms to implement the scheduling problem they are trying to solve and system design chops to know how to scale it. But, as far as having to be on hold for hours, that’s a staffing issue. Most of their issues are symptoms of poor management - not software engineers.

benced 4y ago
To be clear, I don’t think you can blame these software engineers. Management has decided the average value of a tech lead to them is about 175K and they are getting that quality of engineer. I think their current tech issues suggest that the value management is placing on engineers is lower than it should be. Like I said earlier in the thread - there are many bad engineers that are overpaid and many good engineers that are underpaid. On average though, compensation and quality are correlated. In the absence of additional information, compensation is the best metric we have to asses the quality of the underlying engineering talent. It also passes the sniff test - try using the Southwest Airlines app!
- scarface74 4y ago
  Again, you are just as deep in your bubble as everyone else. There are 2.7 million developers in the US. The vast majority of them are paid between $80K-$170k. They are working in banks, government, smaller startups, etc. And it doesn’t take a $400K senior developer that can reverse a binary tree on the whiteboard while juggling bowling balls while riding a unicycle on a tightrope to make a mobile app. How much do you think Delta developers make in Atlanta (hint: they aren’t making over 200K). Their app is excellent. It never ceases to amaze me how little most people on HN know about compensation throughout the industry.

bumby 4y ago

1) These types of comments always make me cringe because it's built on an assumption that everyone is solely trying to optimize for income. I know plenty of people who would take a pay cut to continuously work on what they consider more interesting problems than, say, a social media app or basic CRUD app. 2) COLA matters. $174k in, say, Southwest HQ in Dallas is roughly equated to $422k in SV.

benced 4y ago
It’s ridiculous to suggest that compensation isn’t correlated with quality. There are many exceptions but it’s a good rule of thumb in the absence of additional information. It also just passes the sniff test - try comparing the Southwest Airlines app to the united airlines app. I don’t think COLA matters all that much. The reason SV pays such high salaries reflects the underlying higher productivity of those engineers. The fact that much of that income goes to landlords in the Bay Area is orthogonal to the underlying quality of the engineers.
- bumby 4y ago
  Nobody is claiming they aren't correlated. The question is: how strong is the correlation? The OP seems to insinuate they are extremely correlated on account that it is the sole consideration in the comment. Like so many strong claims made online, it's an overly simplified mental model for something that is much more complex in reality. Like you said, we need more information before making strong claims.